Brit-picking: vital or a waste of time?
Aug. 14th, 2004 09:39 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
emmagrant01![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif){kind=small}
jedirita and I discussed this topic over lunch yesterday, and it pops up on LJ constantly. I've never given it much thought, honestly, because everyone who's ever called me for an Americanism has been extraordinarily nice about it. The culture in the HP fandom seems to be that writers should use British English whenever possible, and I'll admit that I've bought into that 100%. I always looked at it as a respect-for-canon issue.Rita feels differently, though, as do a lot of other people. So I started thinking about it, and now I'm questioning my sudden zeal to make sure my HP fic is as Americanism-free as possible. Can I really accomplish that? And is it really a worthwhile goal, considering there are so many other more important things to work on as a writer?
I'll keep this brief because so many people have already said something about this at some point. I'm still forming my thoughts, and I won't bore you with anything half-assed, for once! ;-)
For now, I'll just point to this post by
lykaios, and say. "Yeah. What she said."
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2004-08-14 08:30 am (UTC)And nope, I'm not picking a fight with you or anyone else. It's just interesting how this language thing hadn't really occurred to me (I'm a non-native speaker of English) but now it seems to come up everywhere).
no subject
Date: 2004-08-15 07:06 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-14 08:42 am (UTC)I'm sure bits of other cultures bleed into those country's authors' fanfics too, so I don't think a few Americanisms are errors that must be stamped out. There are more important elements to a story (i.e., grammar, punctuation, plot, etc.) than whether the writer refers to the kids' clothing as jumpers or sweaters. By now, all of us know what it means. As a reader, it is much more crucial to me that a story is well written with a good storyline.
This is just my humble opinion and not meant to disrespect the whole "respect for canon" issue.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-15 11:10 am (UTC)On the other hand, there are subtle differences, like the much-mentioned sidewalk vs. pavement or pants vs. trousers, that I feel shouldn't be such a big deal. We Americans say both pants and trousers, for example, but "trousers" sounds very stilted and old-fashioned. It's something your grandfather would say, so it feels more in-character for Harry to say "pants". It's ignorance, but it's coming from the right place, you know? We're trying, and I, for one, appreciate it when people kindly point those differences out to me. If someone dismissed my fic because Hermione served pancakes for breakfast and that's so obviously American, I'd say they missed the entire point of my story.
Re: Eh, turned into a rant - am not ranting at you...
Date: 2004-08-15 11:17 am (UTC)Right. The thing I'm not sure British fen really understand is how different the Brit and US versions are. I mean, Harry & co. don't come across as American teenagers by any means, but it's precisely the subtle differences in the two dialects that were changed. The average American HP fan doesn't have access to the British versions, unless she goes to amazon.co.uk to order them, and they're much more expensive than the American versions. The expectation that we should just know better is unrealistic, I think. People who don't see that, ironically, know very little about American culture.
I'm not saying we shouldn't try to write in Britglish, because I agree that we should, for characterization reasons. That is a point I think
Right. The thing I'm not sure British fen really understand is how different the Brit and US versions are. I mean, Harry & co. don't come across as American teenagers by any means, but it's <i>precisely</i> the subtle differences in the two dialects that were changed. The average American HP fan doesn't have access to the British versions, unless she goes to amazon.co.uk to order them, and they're much more expensive than the American versions. The expectation that we should just <i>know better</i> is unrealistic, I think. People who don't see that, ironically, know very little about American culture.
I'm not saying we shouldn't try to write in Britglish, because I agree that we should, for characterization reasons. That is a point I think <my darling friend <user site="livejournal.com" user="jedirita"> and I disagree on. But I can't help but get rankled when Brits pull the whole "American cultural hegemony" bit, because we're <i>not</i> doing it on purpose! Most of us are more than willing to learn!
Okay, until this moment, I had no idea "bullshit" was American. Really? Must go search LMH for any occurences of that word...
no subject
Date: 2004-08-14 08:49 am (UTC)English, wherever it is spoken and written, is a constantly evolving thing. In some five years I have picked up a few Canadianisms, and I'm not horrified if suddenly it should sneak in. Growing up in Australia, I was constantly exposed to British and American culture, including such gems as "Some Mothers Do Have 'Em" and "Welcome Back, Kotter", and it seems to me only natural that my personal form of English will have some nods to both.
English is a living language, and I'm rather amazed that people would waste time on the localization of the writer. I actually think it would be hilarious to have a Texan Harry Potter (you should write it! LOL). As a writer, if you understand grammar, know how to break the rules when appropriate/interesting, and follow guidelines such as those I use above, you can't go too wrong. This kind of snobbery shouldn't exist in such a diverse culture.
As writers we should embrace the differences as they help us to grow and evolve this wonderful living language of ours.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-15 11:56 am (UTC)I think this is a valid point. While I understand that language is a big part of characterization, I have to believe there's a degree of acceptable error or difference that can be tolerated.
Thanks for your comments!
rambles
A lot of people seem to think that just because they are set in Britian or the characters are British the language, et. al. needs to be British too.
Now having read a lot of different fics and universes I would prefer people writing how they feel comfortable. If your American and write American than you can do it. Same with Canadian and other English variations. If you know the fanon/canon people though tend to pounce on it just warn people. It works for people I know that write who've been called on it before. They just warn them. Of course, if you really want to keep out "Americanism" or whatever just warn them ahead that sometimes you do but, everyone makes mistakes too.
Funny thing is it seems like the HP universe is really strict about it. I don't remember people doing this in Hornblower groups that much. Of course, it's a much smaller fandom. Much smaller.
^____^
Re: rambles
Date: 2004-08-15 01:07 pm (UTC)You know, this may be my lack of wide experience speaking, but I think you've got a good point. Do Americans get picky when people who don't speak American English don't nail the vernacular? I don't know if I've seen this issue in other fandoms. Granted, I don't have much to base that on. I'd like to know what others have experienced, though.
Re: rambles
Date: 2004-08-16 02:47 pm (UTC)It's funny because I never see this kind of thing coming from shows, movies that are clearly in the US. It bothers me sometimes that they freak out over Americans using their spellings and such for Harry Potter and other British fandoms but, Americans never get upset at them for doing the other way around. For me it's not that much of a difference. I have a bigger pet peave with authors who I know "English" is their main language and they have a whole bunch of typos and other mistakes and they never seem to fix them. ***sigh***
no subject
Date: 2004-08-14 09:55 am (UTC)What I do feel strongly though, is that characters should speak/think in character. And Draco simply wouldn't say gotten, Snape wouldn't talk about the fall semester, and Harry wouldn't want to cut his bangs.
I write in a number of American fandoms as well as HP, and I feel it's very important for me to try to get the speech and thought patterns in those fandoms as close as I can to the way the character is presented in the book/show/film. So I generally get my work checked for stray Briticisms. Even if I was only writing for a British audience, I'd still do that, because for me it's all part of getting the characters as 'right' as I can.
*g* I guess I feel quite strongly about the matter!
no subject
Date: 2004-08-14 02:12 pm (UTC)But for the American writer, those examples have nothing whatsoever to do with character. They have to do with language - and by that I mean the language of the writer, not of her characters. An American writer has Snape refer to "fall semester" because she is writing in her own language. Americans can't automatically speak British just because the characters are from the UK.
I sympathize with the fact that it causes a problem for you. But to say that this is an issue of characterization is not accurate.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-14 02:18 pm (UTC)For example, in Sorkin fic (Sports Night for example), the dialogue and speech patterns of the characters are an integral part of who the characters are. So if I was to start writing their dialogue in Queen's English, readers wouldn't hear Dan or Casey, the characters I'm trying to write, they'd hear me instead. And I want to write more than just my own voice, which means me taking that step to try to master other dialects/speech patterns or whatever, in my writing.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-15 01:14 pm (UTC)Where's the line between an annoying amount of American English in a fic and a tolerable amount? Is it the case that you'll just never be truly happy reading a fic written by an American writer, or is there some point at which you can overlook subtle turns of phrase that aren't quite right?
no subject
Date: 2004-08-15 01:25 pm (UTC)Oh, goodness, no! Turns of phrase that might sound a little odd won't affect my enjoyment at all, and I may not even notice some of them. But there are a few words and phrases that are used a lot by American writers that are very distincly American, and they do make me grimace ('gotten' is one, probably the biggest culprit for me, but also 'anyways' seems to have cropped up a lot recently). But I just put stories in Word and do a search and replace for things like gotten! If the story is well written, I might mutter under my breath a little about the Americanisms, but I'll still read and enjoy. *g* And it's always obvious when the author has made an effort, so a few stray errors aren't a big deal, IMO.
I have the same problem with American English. I listen really carefully to shows, and make notes on phrases that characters use, but I'm still never going to nail it perfectly.
Getting a bit serious and philisophical for a moment...
Date: 2004-08-15 03:12 pm (UTC)Given how archaic much of the Wizarding world seems to be, I can see them using 'gotten'. The problem of course, is that most people now understand it to be American, and therefore protest on reading it.
Also, in the age of television, same day world wide release movies, and the internet, the language is ebbing and flowing between countries. It's getting very hard to say exactly which country an expression began in. Buffy, for example, has influenced the language not only in the States, but also in the UK, Australia, New Zealand, basically anywhere it's shown without dubbing. The cross-cultural pop media saturation is so pervasive, that teenagers across the globe now speak a subset of common English, where there is little common ground in older generations. I think that sometimes when we argue about incorrect cultural use of words, we're really arguing about a generational language difference. Or in other words, it's a generation gap thing.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-14 10:09 am (UTC)I try to keep particularly obvious Americanisms out of my stuff -- you will never hear one of my Seans calling football "soccer" -- but sometimes I don't even know what to look for. And other times I'm worried that it'll make my stuff look stilted. And honestly, some of the time there are things that seem like they ought to be more British but aren't British at all -- all of Obi-Wan's syntax through all five films so far, for example. Completely Americanized despite the accent.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-15 01:17 pm (UTC)Yes, me too! Slang is difficult to get right, and the HP characters don't speak proper English all the time. In an effort to make their characters feel more real, many American writers use colloquial language in dialogue, and it's damn near impossible to get that right unless you've had a lot of exposure to it.
Since you've been involved in a lot of different fandoms, maybe you can answer this for me: what happens when it's the other way around? Are Americans picky about Briticisms popping up in fics in American-based fandoms?
no subject
Date: 2004-08-15 01:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-14 10:23 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-15 01:22 pm (UTC)Do you have any personal experience with that? I haven't been involved in an American-based fandom, so I'm curious about what happens in the reverse situation. Do they have the same sorts of arguments?
If you want the story to reflect as much as possible the culture it was written in, it will do so more accurately if you culture-pick.
And I think you've pointed out something very significant here: we're writing about people in a specific culture, at a specific time, in a specific place. There is an extent to which that culture plays a role in characterization, IMO. In a fandom like Star Wars, it simply isn't the same. There is no real Galaxy Far, Far Away we can look to to see if we have it right. There aren't any people to tell us we've got it wrong. Well, I guess the folks on theforce.net think they've got that power, but I'd dispute their authority. ;-)
no subject
Date: 2004-08-15 02:34 pm (UTC)Conversely, I once questioned a writers decision to have the mid teen Buffy character, Dawn, carry round a Power Puff girls backpack, feeling that this was unlikely given her age. I was corrected, and told that the Power Puff Girls had become an unlikely symbol of Girl Power in certain teenage cultures in the US. An excellent example of how easy it is to misunderstand the culture of the universe you are writing in. Although, I have to say, I'm old enough now, that the generation gap would hamper my writing, even if writing a teenager from my own country. I'd need my own culture picked for me.
And yes you're quite right, it is all to do with specific culture. The Blake's 7 universe for example, in common with Star Wars and Farscape, has more scope for cultural engineering on the part of the writer. Therefore, even though Blake's 7 is theoretically British, it doesn't require nearly as much Brit picking, because it's 'British' in the same way that Star Wars is 'American', ie. only because it was made in that country, not because it is culturally identical to the country of its birth.
I agree with the others who point out that OOC is the real problem. Culture picking or no, if your character starts spouting words or phrases they wouldn't ever use, it jars far more than minor language barriers. A word or two out of place will certainly throw me out of the story if I was engrossed in it, but I can get past that, and realise it's a small sacrifice for an engaging plot. After all, we do it all the time for blockbuster films.
"England and America are two countries divided by a common language."
George Bernard Shaw.
Addendum: Small spelling errors in what should be 'British' English are encouraged by facilities like Live Journal, which has a spell checker, but only knows how to spell in American. If a writer were to post the fic in the first instance on Live Journal, without first having run it through a Brit-picker, her efforts to spell the British way would be sabotaged, possibly without her knowing.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-14 10:35 am (UTC)I only have two pet peeves on what I read in a fic. That is I deplore the use of 'cum' and 'ass' Harry and Draco might be fucking each other senseless, but they 'come' and they have arses. Thats my own personal dislikes though, everything else doesn't worry me unduly as long as the story is good. Give me a really badly written story though and I hate every single Americanism in it.
Of course, if the story is set in the US then any characters that are additional will be American wouldn't they, and don't need to speak the Queens English. heh.
Just my two cents worth.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-15 01:26 pm (UTC)I think that's the point
I only have two pet peeves on what I read in a fic. That is I deplore the use of 'cum'...
Oh, god I hate that word! It just sounds so "porny" to me. that's a word that will make me stop reading a fic, in any fandom. I have no reasonable explanation for it; it's just an irrational hate of that word. And the use of the word "cunt" in het fic makes me cringe too. >-P
no subject
Date: 2004-08-20 03:48 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-14 10:48 am (UTC)That said, I think there are at least a few simple things writers can do to avoid the most obvious reminders that they've co-opted a culture from another country. Getting the slang right without over using it is a good thing. Throwing out prat and git every few sentences is a little lame, while interesting little things like shirty and cack are woefully underused. It's not that hard to remember little things like "Happy Christmas" instead of "Merry Christmas", football instead of soccer, jumper instead of sweater, pants and trousers instead of underwear and pants, etc. It also helps to consciously write the dialog more formally for the professors and other adults. Something as small as using full phrases instead of contractions can make a big difference in the feel of a character's speech.
In the end, does it matter if the Britishisms or Americanisms rule? Depends on the reader. I think it's best to at least try to be true to the culture, because few things will drag a reader out of a story faster than using details that don't fit into the world the author is writing about.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-15 05:19 pm (UTC)I agree. As an American writer, I've tried really hard to exorcise blatant Americanisms from my HP fic. But I know that no one will every send me feedback along the lines of "Wow, I would have sworn you were British, but you're from Texas!" Nor is that a goal. I'd rather people talk about getting sucked into the plots of my stories, or my writing bringing them to tears, or falling for my characters...
Heh. A girl can dream, can't she?
canon
Date: 2004-08-14 01:13 pm (UTC)Small things like spelling and grammar are fine because you get used to the way you spell but when you are writing a character's speech you have to think, what would *insert name* say, and if snape was insulting Harry you wouldnt think 'oh yes the stuck up english posh guy would call the little english kid at a scottish boarding school a 'dolt' because he just wouldn't.
It comes down to what the character would say, not what is british and what is american, i could honestly see ron saying a word like 'dude' cuz he's young and young brits often say that (i.e. me, but with my scottish accent it sounds slightly silly!) - that's an american word with a brit guy but its okay because it fits his character. But for Snape to call someone dude, i would laugh.
It just depends on what the character would say or do.
I don't really think it matter in words that are not speech or thought, like sidewalk or store (pavements or shops) but it makes the story seem a bit more believable(if you ignore the whole 'magical world of JKR' thing) if the british characters walk on pavements and go to the shop.
the end
kirsty
pink_princess_potter@yahoo.com
Re: canon
Date: 2004-08-15 05:24 pm (UTC)It just depends on what the character would say or do.
Yeah, and I think that we don't all agree on that as a fandom anyway. I've had people tell me that a scene I'd written absolutely nailed Molly Weasley as a character, while other people said that Molly was horribly OOC in the very same scene. I think that American writers try to write teenage dialogue based on what they know about teen-speak, which is Americanized at best. How many British adults could really write authentic British teenspeak?
But I agree that writers who write fic set in the UK, with British characters, should make every reasonable effort to include details of the appropriate culture. They won't get it right, but I do think they -- we should try.
Re: canon
Date: 2004-08-16 06:50 am (UTC)I got here cuz i found left my heart on a rec list somewhere (that long ago can't remember) and i keep checking back once in a while to see if you've written more cuz ure good! And i like ure post hogwarts rec list too so i watch for updates on that too! I was on LJ but i never used it and my fics are on ff.net because well, i only have one series really so i just have a yahoo group. If i wrote constantly then i probably would have stuck to LJ.
hugs
kirsty
xxx
pink_princess_potter@yahoo.com
Re: canon
Date: 2004-08-16 08:05 am (UTC)You have no idea the things i had to take out when i started writing. I had Snape saying things like 'aye' instead of yes and i would automatically write that because its what my head was telling me. Also saying things like 'how' instead of 'why' was pointed out to me too, and 'oose' this is a word from just my area of scotland and i had wracked my brain for the english word for 'oose' for about an hour till it came to me (its lint by the way, if i remember correctly it was a fluffy add in between speech where Draco picked the oose off harry's jumper).
So i can sympathise with non-english writers.
We all have problems but as long at the character doesnt sound totally ridiculous i don't think its that much of a problem.
sorry for butting in again
kirsty
xxx
no subject
Date: 2004-08-14 01:45 pm (UTC)**shuts up her ramblings**
no subject
Date: 2004-08-15 05:25 pm (UTC)In fact, the US editions of HP are re-written as to read the "american way" so most authors don't even know that they are doing anything wrong at all.
Abso-fucking-lutely!
no subject
Date: 2004-08-16 09:33 am (UTC)Yes, and some people get so pissed off about it. I've had a review where someone said "The story would be good but you should SPELL CORRECTLY" and at the time, when I was new to the fandom, I was wtf?!?!
*sighs*
no subject
Date: 2004-08-14 01:47 pm (UTC)I am not an obsessive Brit-picker, because I speak American English and just don't have the killer skillz necessary, but I do at least try to match the voices of characters to their voices in canon as much as I can. Ron, for example, has a very distinctly working-class British voice to me, and so I try to match that as best I can (which is tough, because, um, not a huge base to work from for me). I don't make as much of an effort with the rest of the text, but when a character is speaking, to me it's as much an issue of characterization as his reaction or physical mannerisms would be.
Although, you know, maybe that's the linguist in me. I do tend to notice accent, register, etc. of a speaker probably more than most readers would, so maybe it's just my own thing. *shrug*
no subject
Date: 2004-08-15 05:43 pm (UTC)I don't make as much of an effort with the rest of the text, but when a character is speaking, to me it's as much an issue of characterization as his reaction or physical mannerisms would be.
See, I agree with that 100%. If the narrative has it wrong, I don't see that as such a big deal. But the following would certainly make me raise an eyebrow:
Ron: Hey, y'all goin' to that totally rad ripper in Hufflepuff tonight? I'm SO gonna be kickin' it, homes.
Harry: Yo, whatchoo all up in my grill for? I'm down with that!
Hermione: Un-UHH. I know my baby's daddy ain't slackin on me tonight!
Ron: Why you buggin' me, bee-yatch?
Harry: She's always doggin' you.
Ron: All up in my bizness, yo.
Okay, maybe more than an eyebrow would be raised over that! ;-)
no subject
Date: 2004-08-14 02:45 pm (UTC)It's like that- when I read HP fics with /large/ americanisms in them. I'm not talking about American sentence structure and replacing s with z and leaving out the u in colour. (those sort of hit me not as americanisms, but as spelling mistakes, simply because of how I was taught at school, but I don't mind that, I can easily look beyond it.)
But Harry Potter is what you might call very "British". I quote British because it's not what I would say, being Scottish, I identify it as very /English/. And not just that, it's very middle class, public school sort of English. The majority of Britain is not like Harry Potter. It's quite exaggerated, especially in the ideas of pranking, and the way Ron speaks, and the whole structure of Hogwarts. This essential /english-ness/ is a big part of the HP books and their charm.
So in that sense, any americanisms, which in other british based fandoms, might go fairly unnoticed, or can be easily overlooked - stick out like a sore thumb in HP fanfic. At least to British readers. So I suppose my conclusion is, brit picking obviously comes after plot and character and all the essentials of the story- and it is entirely voluntary (I don't know how difficult it is to do) - but you just have to bear in mind, that the americanisms are very visible, to british readers, more visible than you probably appreciate. It puts some people off. I myself have been put off before- but that was also due to the fic being terrible- and most of the time I can handle it. :)!
Those were my two pence. XD
Regionally Speaking
Date: 2004-08-14 03:33 pm (UTC)kristy has been the one I agree with most so far. It's all about what the character would say. I am not a writer (let me repeat so not a writer) but I read a LOT.
So, when Americanisms (or Aussie ones or whatever) put the character into the realm of OC in a not-good way, then that does bother me. And reading things that I know are distinctly British does help the flow of a fic more, but if it isn't in the dialogue or coming directly from a character then it is less bothersome. An OC 'bullshit' is just as bad as an OC 'my darling' from Snape. And if 'soccer' is used instead of 'football' I'm immediately keyed into the fact that the writer is probably American or something, but won't necessarily be turned off from the fic.
I do prefer things be Brit-perfect, but won't stop reading if that is the only problem. In fact, sometimes I get confused because the writer is either British or has a good concept of the culture and uses references I can't understand.
I'm a American. But I've been reading HP for 2 yrs & was massively devoted to anything Spike before that. I've become used to the Brit-speak and have little trouble with it. Although, the first time I saw HPCoS and heard '..have you seen my jumper?' I immediately pictured a really ugly out-of-date tank dress and had to pause a minute to realize what she was asking. Am I stupid?
*grins* Don't answer that!
But I'm not British, so not automatically understanding that jumper = sweater or boot=trunk or sidewalk=pavement is okay. (Which I did NOT know that one- thanks!)
I'm not only American (it gets worse!), I'm from the The South. (egads!) Georgia, actually. And now I live in Oklahoma (go Sooners!). After reading the posts on here and on the one Emma referred to in her first post, I felt in necessary to comment about something I've noticed from personal experience.
People ask 'what a Brit say/do this?' bla bla. I find it hard to answer the same thing for America. For example- 'what would an American call -insert thing-?' That may depend on what part of the country you are coming from. I giggle when I see other Americans make comments that I totally disagree with!
Hmm.. lets see if I can come up with an example..
Carbonated beverages!
Cokes, pops, sodas, soda pops.. what do *you* call them? As I said, I'm from Georgia. We call them Cokes. Yes, yes, that is indeed a brand name- but it is the home of Coke. (The World of Coke is so cool!)
So a conversation may go like this:
Friend: "I'm getting something to drink. You want anything?
Me: "Yeah, I'll take a coke. Thanks."
Friend: "Okay. What kind?"
Me: "Sprite."
Confused yet? LOL
In OK- the minute I said 'coke', they would assume I mean 'Coke'. I would need to say pop to indicate something more general.
Certainly, America is larger, but the age and tradition of England is deeper (except for NA- which is a different topic). So I'm just wondering if it isn't the same over there- regionally, I mean. Sure, 'football' is football, not soccer. But does the whole country go around saying 'wotcher'?
(Tonks so threw me with that one!)
Have I totally gone off into left-field yet? :) sorry!
Oh- I will say this though- there ARE times when writers have the characters come over to the US. While I think the characters themselves would still 'think British' the world around them is not. I've read about Harry coming to 'university' in the US (not going to the University of... or college, as we would say) and never once did the writer switch to semesters or quarters or talk about graduation or any of that stuff. So, while it is rare, the reverse does happen. People get picky about the Brit-picking, but forget to compensate in fics where the characters travel. I find that interesting.
Um, can you tell I'm bored? Sorry, sickness has me stuck in bed for the weekend.
peachus
Re: Regionally Speaking
Date: 2004-08-16 02:51 pm (UTC)So a conversation may go like this:
Friend: "I'm getting something to drink. You want anything?
Me: "Yeah, I'll take a coke. Thanks."
Friend: "Okay. What kind?"
Me: "Sprite."
It's a Southern thing. We do it in Texas too. I am forever saying I want a coke at restraunts, etc and they generally ask "What kind?" LOL. ^____~
no subject
Date: 2004-08-14 06:58 pm (UTC)I am writing thoughts off the cuff so I apologise if I'm not very ordered.
Yes. I think Brit picking, or American/ Australian/ Canadian picking is very important - essential actually. But I don't think the occasional mistake is a major sin and I think people should spell the way they were taught. (And use a bloody spell checker at the VERY least.) It's not so much canon for me, I think, as being in character. I want to read the characters I was drawn to not some totally unfamiliar person with the character's name and/or face.
I personally don't write in American modern-day fandoms because I know I would sound absurd, unless I took more time and effort getting it right than I'm prepared to for a hobby . If I did I would most definitely get a native speaker to beta it for me.
The thing that I find a problem is not so much words but getting institutions or behaviours wrong. Perhaps they are the hardest to even know about. Though how anyone who has actually read the HP books and seen the movies - much less is a fan of the universe - could make some of the gaffs I've seen, astonishes me.
I do think it's apalling that people are dragging other issues into the language thing... as I get the impression they must have been in other forums. Honest mistakes are honest mistakes
and have nothing to do with the fact that we are being drowned in US culture whether we want it or not.In the end there is room for all tastes, especially in a fandom as huge as HP. I probably won't finish a fic that has 'pavements' and 'graduations' and such, and is peppered with US slang... unless it is so fantastic that it takes me past that, not that I've found one that does yet. But there are heaps of people who don't care or don't realise that it's full of anachronisms (so to speak). So... *shrugs*
It boils down to the same thing as has often been talked about in Q/O... Obi-Wan behaving like a scared, dim, insecure adolescent isn't the Obi-Wan I saw in the film, and he's just not interesting to me. In the same way, a Hogwarts that looks and sounds like an American high school isn't the one I read/saw and I'm not really interested in that either... unless it is an AU, and that might be fun, if it is well conceived and written.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-14 07:23 pm (UTC)I have found in the past year and a half that I've been in the HP world that I've been slipping Britishisms into my own daily speech and writing. It's truly not a conscious effort! And let's face it... if you say "bugger!" in public, you don't get the scathing looks you get if you were to say "fuck!" instead. :)
When reading, I will admit that now it does tend to bother me to see sweater rather than jumper, but it's not a big deal. My biggest concern is *consistency*. I don't want to see colour and color in the same story. Or see Brit spelling with Americanisms thrown in.
I try to make the effort to keep my HP as British as possible, but I don't have it brit-picked. If I have a particular concern, I do consult a Brit.
Um. I suppose I ought to go read everything else now.
britsh/american english
Date: 2004-08-15 12:45 pm (UTC)I hope I didn't offend anybody (but I think that if somebody said to me they think Estonian and Finnish are the same I'd probably be hysterical too - hysterically laughing, that is).
Best wishes to you Emma Grant and thanks for the wonderful fics you write.
LadyBird
no subject
Date: 2004-08-20 04:35 am (UTC)I even try to do British spelling (though since I hadn't thought of setting Word to British and have been doing it on my own, some words are still spelt American; I always forget offence and defence and the extra s in focusses, but I'm good with ou and s instead of z) in my fics because when I started writing Ewan!fic it was in the Establishment and we have journal entries, so those would obviously be British spelling, and it became habit to write the fic like that as well to practise.
I read
And now I'm writing a new British character but it's in Edwardian times, and it's actually easier than writing present day language.