emmagrant01 | Somebody stop me!

Before I hurt myself.

But seriously, I have a question. It appears that most people who participate in slash fandoms are politically liberal (or left-wing, if you prefer that term). I realize that means many different things in different countries, of course, but when I cruise my f-list, I see lots of people who support gay marriage, who oppose the war in Iraq, who oppose the Bush administration in the US, and so on. It could just be a product of who happens to be on my f-list, but I'm not sure.

So are slashers, in general, more liberal than the average person on the street? Why or why not?

If you're not liberal and are a slasher, do you feel like a minority? Do you find it difficult to express your views?

ETA: The terms "liberal" and "conservative" mean different things to different people and aren't even opposites -- it's possible to be a liberal conservative, for example. I would love to hear what the word "liberal" means to you if you're applying it to yourself, or even if you don't.

I'm also curious to hear from people who don't support gay rights and believe homosexuality is immoral, yet who read and/or write slash. I know you're out there! I'd love to hear what you think!

Current Mood: contemplative

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

amberleewriter.livejournal.com

I'm what I like to term a radical reactionary. When I bother to align myself with an actual political party, I do so with the Libertarians. I am VERY right conservative about fiscal issues and VERY left on social ones. I don't find it difficult to express my views to anyone – including my very bigoted republican family members – because I'm a loud mouth that believes that it is my responsibility to push for equality and freedom for all beings as part of my self actualization. I'm cool with people disagreeing with me as long as they do it because they've thought about the situation and have a reasoned opinion. Only people that blindly follow along with something like lemmings cause me to get my dander up and then I just spend my time trying to challenge whatever they believe so they think for themselves – not because I want them to think like me. In fact, you'll often see me take BOTH sides of a issue in an argument (or the one I don't personally believe in) just to make sure that equal time gets given to all sides.

But I'm odd.

While I am socially "liberal" I do know a few people in slash/yaoi fandoms that are "conservative" in the social sense. I know people that are very religious and say that they don't support homosexuality yet roleplay homosexual characters and draw depictions of homosexual sex. These individuals, when they do express that they think homosexuality is wrong and that homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to marry, get flamed mercilessly on every board and group I'm on. It's very difficult for them to express any form of political views and they are often at odd with LJ and online friends. They have expressed to me that they feel beaten down and ridiculed for having "moral standards." They say that drawing depictions of homosexual activity between fictional characters, writing slash of fictional characters, and role playing characters that are not real has nothing to do with REAL people and REAL homosexuals. They insist that their support of erotica and slash is not in conflict with their religious beliefs that homosexuality is a sin.

I, personally, don't quite understand the logic used. I often engage these individuals in conversation to try and understand how they can reconcile their beliefs with their actions. I am still unsure how they manage it. However, I do know several people of this sort and they stalwartly stick by their art, their writing, and their insistence that homosexuality is immoral and gay marriage is wrong and against the laws of God and nature.

So, while I'm not one of these people, I can answer question two with yes, they feel like a minority online and yes they find it difficult to express their views.

From:

emmagrant01.livejournal.com

When I bother to align myself with an actual political party, I do so with the Libertarians.

There are quite a few Libertarian slashers, it seems! Makes sense, when you think about it.

They say that drawing depictions of homosexual activity between fictional characters, writing slash of fictional characters, and role playing characters that are not real has nothing to do with REAL people and REAL homosexuals.

I've heard that argument as well, and I'm always curious to hear more about it. I'm not exactly sure why reading or writing about fictional homosexuality is okay, while it's immoral and sinful in reality. One person who felt that way put it to me this way: "I love reading murder mysteries, but I don't condone killing people in real life."

I think that's a terrible analogy, because I doubt most people who read murder mysteries are getting off on the murder part. They like the solving of the mystery. In slash, however, it's hard to argue that you're not getting on on the idea of two hot guys fucking, on some level. People read and write slash for many reasons, of course, but I truly think that anyone who says they're not interested in the sex is lying out their ass.

So what's the difference, really, between fictional homosexuality and real homosexuality? I would really, truly like this explained to me.

From:

amberleewriter.livejournal.com

So what's the difference, really, between fictional homosexuality and real homosexuality? I would really, truly like this explained to me.

Yeah, me too. It's one of the reasons I continue to debate my flist/friends that hold this position. I just don't see the logic in it and I've yet to get an answer from someone that seems logical. "It just is. Can't you tell reality from fiction?" just doesn't cut it for me.

If I ever get something that seems like a logical answer I'll be sure to share it. Please do the same!

From:

emmagrant01.livejournal.com

"Can't you tell reality from fiction?" just doesn't cut it for me.

You know, I've never heard that one. I'm trying to think if there's any other thing I love reading about but think is immoral and horrible in RL. I really can't think of anything! I know some people get off on rape fc, but I really don't. *shrugs*

I'm at a loss on that one.

From:

helens78

I know some people get off on rape fc, but I really don't. *shrugs*

*grins* *pokes head up* OK, I do write, read, and get off on noncon fic. I read something once that put it in an interesting light: Rape is about a complete lack of control. Rape fantasies are about having complete control, as in getting to direct every part of the action -- which is certainly true for what happens with me and writing my characters, although it doesn't hold true for reading other people's rapefic. *ponders* And I don't really dig noncon RPS -- heck, my whole series "Matter of Time", RPS or no, hinges on a certain semi-consensuality (the idea that any character could walk out at any moment is very clear in my head and has been since the beginning). I dig the hell out of TPM noncon, though, and I'd be all over Troy noncon (might someday write some) -- don't know that I could get into KA noncon... hm. (I'm going to have to think this over a bit more.)

From:

emmagrant01.livejournal.com

Ya know, I've been thinking about this too. In fact, I was washing dishes not ten minutes ago and pondering the issue of rapefic as an analogy for enjoying slash but still believing homosexuality is immoral.

Here's what I was thinking: consider your average slash fan. She reads and writes lots of slash. Maybe she has an OTP and maybe she doesn't, but the odds are she only rarely reads het or gen fic in the same fandom, for a variety of reasons. She probably subscribes to a handful of listserves devoted to slash fic, and her LJ f-list is populated by folks who dig the same kind of fic she does. She enjoys a variety of kinks and genres of slash, but the main attraction, for her, is the relationship between the two (probably male) characters. She likes to read explicit sex, but it's better if it's part of a story she can get into.

Now, I'm sure there are people out there who are fans of a particular kink, rather than particular characters/fandoms. I'm sure there are lists and communities devoted to rapefic. I'm equally sure that most of the people who read those don't condone rape in RL. Somehow, the fantasy of raping or being raped turns them on, and that is the sole reason they read and write fanfic. These hypothetical people would probably read rapefic in any fandom, slash or het. I don't want to offend anyone here, but I can't help but wonder if those folks have some issues they're trying to work through.

I totally just made that up, of course, but do you think that's fundamentally different from being a slasher in a fandom or two? We're typically more interested in the characters than in the specific sex acts they engage in. We'll enjoy non-con, but it's because it shows us something intere4sting about the characters and their relationships for the most part, right?