That IQ test thing (gacked from several people)

[emmagrant01]

I hate these things. I hate the concept of testing for "intelligence" anyway, primarily because intelligence is not well-defined. In particular, most "intelligence tests" are actually testing how much you remember about middle school mathematics, English, and history.

Your IQ Is 140

Your Logical Intelligence is Genius Your Verbal Intelligence is Genius Your Mathematical Intelligence is Genius Your General Knowledge is Genius

A Quick and Dirty IQ Test

The thing is, you can learn how to take tests like this and do well on them. Does that say anything about an innate ability you have? No, not really. It just means you're a good test-taker. Moreover, many of the questions on this test (as they usually are on these sorts of things) were problematic. I'll just discuss a sample here.

4. Dave is offered a raise if he can increase his weekly productivity by 24%. If Dave works a six day week, how much does he need to increase his productivity each day?
24%
6%
4%

The answers are all bare percentages. But percentages of what? It makes a difference. 6% of your total productivity for the week is very different from 6% of your productivity for a single day. It isn't clear what the unit of reference is intended to be here. You could make an argument either way.

8. The opposite of gregarious is:

Ingenuous
Taciturn
Loquacious
Convivial

How does knowing or not knowing the meaning of this word say anything about someone's intelligence? It says something about your level of education, perhaps, or about how well-read you are. But intellligent? Give me a break. This is an SAT question, and that test purports to measure potential to be successful in the first two years of university -- not intelligence.

11. What number comes next? 2, 3, 5, 9, ?

15
17
18
14

I hate these questions. The problem with "name the sequence" problems is that with a small number of terms, you can make an argument for many different possibilities. For example, you could write down a formula to force 15 to be the correct answer simply by saying a₂ = a₀ + a₁; for n>2, a_n = a_n-1 + a_n-2 + 1. These are always problematic for that reason. There are infinitely many sequences that contain that string of integers.

16. Of the four languages below, which is the least widely spoken?

Arabic
Hindi
English
Chinese

How does knowing the answer to this question say anything about your intelligence? It says that you have been keeping up with the news and are interested in world current events. So is my stepfather, and let me tell you -- he's not that smart.

And on top of everything else, I'm not sure I should trust the results of an intelligence test that contains grammatical errors...

All right, I think my point is clear. These things aren't measuring how "smart" you are. They're measuring something else altogether, something that isn't necessarily related to intelligence. However that is defined.


And on an unrelated note:

Your Amazing Yoda Sex Line

"Foreplay, cuddling - a Jedi craves not these things."

The Amazing Yoda Sex Line Generator

Comments

[batagur.livejournal.com]

I absolutely agree. These test are flawed from the start. As I looked at the logic section (and Logic and analysis is what I tested strongest in on my GRE) I noticed how fundamentally flawed a few of the questions were that made the answer ambiguous.

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

Yes, absolutely. But even when it was ambiguous it was still obvious which answer they were looking for, which makes it a test of test-taking skills. :-P

[batagur.livejournal.com]

Yes, and that makes all the difference when you have a person taking a test using the logic of life(or 'street smarts') and not the logic of 'giving the expected answer.' This is sometimes the reason why people claim IQ test are bias against people of certain cultural backgrounds.

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

Right, exactly. I'm sure you know this already, but the first IQ tests (used by the government to sieve out officer candidates from the enlisted ranks in the military) mostly contained questions that asked about cultural knowledge that would have been obvious to people who grew up managing a farm, but not those who grew up in an urban area, or those for first language wasn't English. So the best indicator for intelligence was being an white male landowner. *gasp*

[batagur.livejournal.com]

So the best indicator for intelligence was being an white male landowner. *gasp*

Shocking! I also find it interesting that the IQ of an average person increases every year. Wow! We are all still learning! One test taken in childhood does not take that into account.

[darthmyrrh.livejournal.com]

Totally agree. Tho this test is not like another internet IQ test that's been spread around for sometimes.

(and of the person doesn't speak English and can answer number 8, who that make them less intelligent? :p)

You make me think of Thai version of 'Who want to be the millionnare?' when the show was first imported into the free TV a few years ago. Everybody was watching it. And some people said it's the best show that 'encourage people to seek knowledge'. But then, most question in the show would ask something like 'Who is the lead actor of insert-the-name drama on Channel 3?" (the channel that host the show)...

Thai people just don't know the different between memory and knowledge, not to say 'wisdom'. XD

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

I think we have the same problems in the US!

But your point about language is a good one. Unfortunately, language isn't taken into consideration in this case.

[darthmyrrh.livejournal.com]

Not only Language, but most of the 'Social Studies' are ignored when it comes to something that can be 'measure'. :p

[emila-wan.livejournal.com]

I agree with you on everything except the first point.

4. Dave is offered a raise if he can increase his weekly productivity by 24%. If Dave works a six day week, how much does he need to increase his productivity each day?
24%
6%
4%

The answers are all bare percentages. But percentages of what? It makes a difference. 6% of your total productivity for the week is very different from 6% of your productivity for a single day. It isn't clear what the unit of reference is intended to be here. You could make an argument either way.

It doesn't make a difference if Dave needs to increase his productivity by 24% per week, month, year, or lifetime. In any case, he needs to increase his productivity daily by 24% to accomplish that.

If that still doesn't make sense, imagine the question said "double his productivity over two days" instead? If he normally produces 10 widgets per day, that's a total of 20 in two days. To double it, he needs 40 in two days, or 20 per day, which is double per day. Make sense?

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

I think what I'm trying to say is a little different. It wasn't that there was more than one right answer; it was that the question wasn't well-phrased. I knew what they were asking for, so it was clear that the answer they were looking for was 24%. But it just bugs me to see these percentages thrown around without any reference to what exactly they are percentages of. It's sloppy and a little ambiguous. Like batagur and I were discussing above, the best way to do well on a test like this is often to figure out what the test-maker is looking for, not what really should make sense.

And that's why Kaplan makes so much money... :-P

[thalia]

And that's why Kaplan makes so much money... :-P

Yup. And I agree with you in general about standardized tests; they're more a measure of whether you have a knack for taking them than anything else. But I figure as long as b-school applicants are stuck taking the GMAT, I might as well help them learn how to do it well.

I will say, though, that I honestly think that a lot of the skills they learn in Kaplan's GMAT class will help them do better in school. It's amazing how many people have no idea how to calculate percent increases, for instance. And if their grammar improves, I figure that's a boon to society at large.

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

I don't mean to imply that such exams don't measure anything useful. It's just really, really hard to know if the test you have constructed is really measuring what you think it's measuring. Assessment is very complicated, and constructing a multiple choice measure for something as elusive as intelligence is a nontrivial task. Add to that the fact that people don't really even agree on what intelligence is, and you have a big mess.

The SAT is actually a very good predictor of how successful students are likely to be in their first two years of university. It measures their "academic potential", as you probably know. It doesn't purport to measure how smart they are, or how much they learned in high school. It measures how good they are at "school", which is a reasonable indicator of how good they will be at "college". We can go on to ask what that says about schools and colleges, but that's a different discussion altogether!

But the way those tests are constructed makes them easy to analyze and "teach to", which gives test prep companies a lot of business. Is that a bad thing? Not necessarily. I'm all for beating a flawed system! ;-)

I'm not against standardized testing, actually. I'm just against the way most people use the results of standardized tests.

[jamoche]

The SAT was a very bad predictor for me, because it didn't measure one very important thing: does this person have the slightest clue how to study? As it happened, I didn't, because I'd never had to. I did my calculus homework during roll call; the only classes I even bothered taking notes in were Chemistry and Physics. As to the idea that "girls are more likely to ask teachers for help" - no, again because I'd never needed to.

I had the highest SATs of my HS calculus class by about 200 points, and I'm the only one who managed to screw up so badly; the rest of them had worked for their grades. Now I'm rather curious about how other people in my range faired; I suspect we're unpredictable.

[emila-wan.livejournal.com]

Well, for the purposes of the question, you don't need to know *what* the percentages refer to. I don't think it's a badly phrased or ambiguous question; it leaves off all extraneous information -- which actually makes the question easier IMHO.

But I do agree with you on everything else. An IQ test should not test knowledge, but thinking ability. The language and current events and history questions don't belong. And the series question would be good, but as you say, with so few numbers a *very* smart person can probably come up with a rationale for any of the answers being correct.

OTOH, as you point out, part of intelligence is figuring out what the test-maker is getting at. Overthinking a question is not very intelligent, now is it? *G*

A big problem with IQ tests is that the test-makers are often not smart or imaginative enough to think up questions which differentiate between, say, 130 IQ and 180 IQ. I have taken a lot of "professional" tests, including a bunch of Mensa ones, and the numbers are consistently about 160. But on these sorts of "amateur" tests, even ones that are far better designed than this one, the results vary wildly. On this particular test I scored 140, which is, I think, the maximum, since I am fairly sure I got them all correct. An IQ test on which anyone can answer everything correctly (especially me!) is certainly not going to produce meaningful results. Neither is one on which the top score is 140.

I imagine there are quite a few people around here who top 140 on a real test. This is a vastly intelligent bunch.

But then of course there's the whole question of why the numbers matter at all ... *G*

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

OTOH, as you point out, part of intelligence is figuring out what the test-maker is getting at. Overthinking a question is not very intelligent, now is it? *G*

Touche. ;-)

I took this thing with my bias firmly in place, of course. I have serious issues with assigning a number to human intelligence, as if we could all be lined up from "dumbest" to "smartest". Experts have a hard enough time defining what intelligence actually is -- if we don't even know that, how can we claim to be measuring it?

What those tests are often measuring is something else altogether, and depending on the person and their background, success or failure may or may not indicate anything. If intelligence were really some innate property of the brain, we ought to be able to find a consistent way of measuring it, one that people couldn't learn to do better on. I don't think it's possible, personally, because I'm not convinced intelligence is something you're born with.

Your point about tests not being able to distinguish amongst people who would score very highly is an interesting one. What about people who are very good linguistically, but hate mathematics and haven't thought about it for years? This test would make them "less smart" than a similar individual who has a kid in middle school and is very familiar with algebra and word problems at the moment.

[emila-wan.livejournal.com]

Your point about tests not being able to distinguish amongst people who would score very highly is an interesting one. What about people who are very good linguistically, but hate mathematics and haven't thought about it for years? This test would make them "less smart" than a similar individual who has a kid in middle school and is very familiar with algebra and word problems at the moment.

Well, a truly good test will exercise both the right and left brains, and will do so without bias towards learned skills rather than innate thinking/problem solving. So, for example, there might be spatial puzzles for the right brain, and nonsense words or organization puzzles for the left brain. A good intelligence test measures one's ability to learn and think, not one's past history of doing so.

The whole thing's moot, however, when it comes to "practical" intelligence (or common sense) and emotional intelligence (the ability to defer gratification, etc.) Hard work, self discipline, and people skills are *FAR* more important to one's success in life than any score on a standardized test. There are a disheartening number of "geniuses" who still live leechlike in the parents basement, unemployed, overweight, and lonely as they surf LJ taking flawed IQ tests ... whoops, that's me. *G*

[lover-of-slash.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I should trust the results of an intelligence test that contains grammatical errors...

Very true...how can they judge someone else's intelligence when they can't even use correct grammar? Bah...I hate these kind of tests.

[tarotemp.livejournal.com]

"Foreplay, cuddling - a Jedi craves not these things."

Too funny!!! ;D

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

I know! It's almost a bunny, isn't it? ;-)

[tarotemp.livejournal.com]

Yes. Yes it is...

Dooooo eeeet! *prods you*

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

Ack! I have soooo many bunnies right now, most of them Star Wars. But I have to finish this monster HP fic I'm writing first... :-P

[tarotemp.livejournal.com]

Throw it on the backburner, perhaps?

I'd take the bunny and run with it if I wasn't utter crap at writing SW slash...

[charlotteschaos.livejournal.com]

... and because I'm not even smart enough to know what you're talking about with those questions...

Your Amazing Yoda Sex Line

"When 900 years old you get, Viagra you need too, hmmmm?"

The Amazing Yoda Sex Line Generator

Oh Yoda! My poor little impotent lizard-thingy! *clings and nuzzles*


Actually I tend to score very high on standardized tests, and I can tell you that it's totally because I'm a good test taker. I see the patterns what they're looking for and give the appropriate answer. I guess there's intelligence to be measured in understanding that, but it doesn't say much about anything in the end. Other than those of us who know our scores spent x hours taking a stupid test.

Also, there's an albino spider crawling around my desk and it gives me the fear.

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

I love your Yoda line! We should have a little drabble challenge based on those, dontcha think?

Albino spider? *shudders*

[charlotteschaos.livejournal.com]

Haha that would be great! More smutty Yoda the better! ;) So they go to the site, get their drabble prompt and must write it? *giggles*

He's a really tiny albino spider, but he's very busy. He was running all over my computer at one point and now he's on the other side of my desk terrorizing my cell phone. Normally I'd kill it, but he's kind of cute. Except... I don't... see him now.

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

So they go to the site, get their drabble prompt and must write it?

Yes, exactly! Doesn't that sound like fun? Is there a good comm where we could do this? How about swslash? (Or is it sw_slash? Can't remember...)

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

*sporfles* They both exist. *headdesk*

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

Actually, if we're thinking drabbles, there are two drabble communities: tpm100 and starwars100.

And now I'll stop talking to myself in comments... :-P

[charlotteschaos.livejournal.com]

I was going to ask if this was a private conversation *giggles* So maybe starwars100? *uses her one and only SW icon*

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

tpm100 is a lot bigger, but why not do it on both?

I'll email you some possible text shortly. yay!

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

Actually, both of those comms seem to issue their challenges on Fridays. I don't want to step on anyone's toes. Maybe we should take this somewhere else after all, like swslash?

[charlotteschaos.livejournal.com]

Eep, I don't know which is which... although swslash isn't coming up for me, so... oh, there it goes. It appears you're a member of that one but not the other, so I assume that's the hp-friendlier one? It does sound like fun. Yoda needs some lovin!

[karitawyr.livejournal.com]

About the IQ test thing...a male friend and I both took a test several years ago that I remember one particular question on.

Which one of these items is different than the others?
A. Scarf
B. Belt
C. Purse
D. Dress

I said dress because the others are accessories. He said purse because the other items one wears. He got it "right." Uh-huh. Sometimes the correct answer is determined by your point of view. (Thank you, Obi-Wan.)

[karitawyr.livejournal.com]

Yep. Probably a man. I love taking the tests and getting the results, but sometimes it's really easy to see the bias.

[ktoth04.livejournal.com]

My first response was to think belt, as the only one a guy would wear... I was thinking the accessory scarfs (not the warm ones), you know what I mean...

[karitawyr.livejournal.com]

And who is to say that your logic is wrong?

[perseph.livejournal.com]

This isn't actually a real IQ test though. It seems to be just something which someone threw together for fun. It's closer in nature to "which charcacter from ______ are you" or "what's your porn star name" than it is to standardized testing which you'd take in school. Which is not to say that there aren't problems with the latter.

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

Yes, but the questions aren't too dissimilar from those on real IQ tests. It almost looks like the person(s) who wrote it pulled the questions from a few different places. It's clearly poorly constructed!

[mereol.livejournal.com]

i got 106. normal.

[nike-victory.livejournal.com]

That's kinda cool, but what does "Hojt" mean? The 'o' has a slash through it.

[nike-victory.livejournal.com]

Cool! Thanks. :-)

[booklady.livejournal.com]

So Jedi are of the "wham, bam" school of sex? what a pity, when so many of them are so yummy.

[liesbyomission.livejournal.com]

Those tests are silly.

I will take the case of my sister and me. I'm very smart academically and I'm also a very good test taker. [It's gotten to the point where I was PREDICTING questions on the AP tests on reading comp/listening sections and being mostly right.] I have a very good sense of what the answer "should" be just because of the wording. I'm good both linguistically and mathematically/scientifically, but I'm not nearly as good in history. I'm well above average, but I have trouble remembering all those silly facts and dates -- I'm much better with a big-picture approach.

My sister, on the other hand, is a TERRIBLE test taker. She's also strong both linguistically and mathematically. It's not that she's stupid; she just doesn't have the same knack for test-taking. She's also an amazing musician. I, on the other hand, can't tell a viola from a violin or a bass clef from a treble clef.

Our intelligences just lie in different areas. Just because I can't understand music for the life of me doesn't make me stupid, and the fact that she doesn't know how to take a test doesn't make her stupid either. These tests simply don't account for that, which is why they're so silly.

[sarcastic-apple.livejournal.com]

Ugh. I hate IQ tests.

WTF at everything to do with IQ tests. IQ tests are fatally flawed. There was a big discussion on IQ tests at philosophy, very interesting arguments on IQ tests. *nods*

[nike-victory.livejournal.com]

This reminds me vaguely of the Idaho standarized tests I had to take in elementary school. What I remember most about those was the snacks and that the results always had your scores compared to the scores of everyone else. I tended to score in the 97 percentile, which just meant I got more answers right than most of the other kids.

[delirieuse.livejournal.com]

Not to mention cultural specific - and oftentimes, American specific. I got a test telling me I was stupider than I am because I didn't know how many states bordered the Gulf of Mexico. How many border the Great Australian Bight, eh, Mr Test Creator? Eh?