I'm *not* being defensive, really!

[emmagrant01]

I've seen several people remark lately that the H/D side of the HP fandom is on the downslide, that no good fic is being written anymore, and that the 'ship lost its sails after OOTP came out.

As a writer who came into this fandom after OOTP and fell in love with H/D anyway, this continues to baffle me! I see wonderful H/D fic being written all the time by many, many talented people. It could be because I wasn't around during the halcyon days of the 'ship and just don't know any better. It could be that I have a different perspective on the role of canon in fandom, coming from a fandom in which one member of the OTP was dead before the fandom even started (which forced people to be loose and creative with canon from the start). Yes, I've read all the "classic" fics. I don't actually think they're fundamentally better than the fic being written today, though that could be because of my post-OOTP mindset and my preference for post-Hogwarts fic (in which the writer has a lot more leeway and creative freedom, IMHO). There were many more novel-length fics a few years ago than there are now, but I'm not sure that's what people mean when they bemoan the decline of "good" H/D.

I can't be the only one who doesn't understand the source of this claim. Is it a case of "shiny new toy getting old" for the older fandom folks, or is it really true that something fundamentally changed about H/D after OOTP, something that will never be recovered?

*wonders why she always misses the "golden days" of every fandom by arriving two years too late*

Comments

[pitchblackrose.livejournal.com]

*giggles* I'm with you on the 'late arrivals', many of the Big Names had mostly stopped writing when I got here.

And I read LMH (yet again *blush*) yesterday and it's just... so good. *adores you*

[ms-mindfunk.livejournal.com]

It can't be over yet; I just wrote & posted my first fic! Wah!

Seriously, I think people resent change. Naturally things are different than they used to be, so in a way they are right when they say it's dead. What existed before is gone, and this is what we have now. Love it or leave it, but don't try to recapture the past, 'cause it just won't happen.

[zhonnika.livejournal.com]

H/D goes in and out of 'style' (if you will) every few months, it seems. To me it seems that everyone is Marauders-crazy, and that might because of the release of PoA. I'm not really witnessing any decline in fics and several new groups have sprung up for the ship, so what one sees as a downslide, I do not ;)

[wordplay.livejournal.com]

Yes, I've read all the "classic" fics. I don't actually think they're fundamentally better than the fic being written today, though that could be because of my post-OOTP mindset and my preference for post-Hogwarts fic (in which the writer has a lot more leeway and creative freedom, IMHO).

Word to that, girl. I SO could have written that whole thing. In fact, I would go so far as to say that I really PREFER some of the newer stuff to the older things, but I am irreverent that way. :))

I have actually wondered if the disgruntled state of some of the old guard might be related to just personal growth and development. If this was really your OMG IT'S TRUE LOVE OTP!!!!!! kind of thing, you are going (one would hope!) to grow out of that at some point and take a more, erm, relaxed and slightly more adult view of the pairing and the fic involved. I also think that in ANY small group, there is natural resentment to the new people coming in and changing the dynamic of the place, and I do think some of this is simple primate, turf-protection posturing.

This is why fandom sociology and anthropology are where it's at for me, baby. People are queer animals, and this is one very cool natural habitat in which to watch them. *reaches for the popcorn bowl and the pen*

[dorrie6.livejournal.com]

I am right there with you on this. Perhaps my perspective is skewed by the fact that I actually enjoy one-shots just as much (often more) than novel-length fics, but every time someone says this it makes me crazy. Most of my favorite writers in H/D are writing fic now. Yes, some of them were writing back in the beginning as well, but I am actually quite grateful for the extra obstacles and complication that OotP gave us to work with. The harder it is to get there, the more interested I am in the journey. I'm sure lots of people will consider this as nothing more than the typical "newbie" reaction, but I'm grateful to be in a fandom with the likes of zionsstarfish and geoviki and the zillions of other amazing H/D writers who are almost as new to the fandom as I am.

So. Yeah.

[sorion.livejournal.com]

I don't think it has anything to do with OotP...

And there are still a lot of new HP/DM fics written (only just did a little one, myself and put it in my lj ^-^'').
Though most are being compared to the really big ones...

Don't worry about missing the golden days. Still a lot to be written and read ^-^'

[jedirita.livejournal.com]

This is pure speculation, based on no data whatsoever, but I wonder if "BNFs" - the people who write the high-quality, novel-length fics -- go fandom hoping. I mean, some of the old names I recognized from SW popped up in HP. So maybe they get into a new fandom, write something major, and then lose creative interest and move on to the next fandom? So when a new fandom starts up, it attracts the big-wigs, who then move on to something else - thereby perpetuating the idea that "when it all started" the fic was of high quality, and it subsquently declined when those people moved on.

[saladbats.livejournal.com]

I feel a bit like I am in the middle of many things that are wonderful and H/D. I always have lots to read and often it is very good. In fact, I feel some days like I don't have nearly enough time to read all the new H/D that is coming out. Which is certainly not a complaint. 8)

I think with the release of each new book, more possibilities for the fic emerge. Certainly gives writers a bit more to chew on canon-wise.

[zhonnika.livejournal.com]

Well, speaking as someone who was around back then I DO NOT resent the new writers and the kick to the ass this ship got. Not at all! :D When I was mooning over my SCUSA days a few weeks ago, it was or less me missing how new everything was then, and how small it seems in comparison now (with everything on LJ and so forth).

Hell, I've started a discussion journal and run two comms :)) I want people to write and analyze and discuss and have fun. Regardless of the fact of WHEN they got here.

But now I think *I* am getting defensive, so I'll stop :))

[mizbean.livejournal.com]

I've never understood that either, but I, like you, got into the fandom after OotP. Actually, that is why I seeked the fandom out because OotP had such an effect on me.

I have a hard time reading some of the classic H/D fics that were written before OotP because they paint a too rosy picture of their courtship. After OotP was written, it's a bigger challenge to get the two together which I find more interesting.

[sciencegeek.livejournal.com]

I've seen several people remark lately that the H/D side of the HP fandom is on the downslide, that no good fic is being written anymore, and that the 'ship lost its sails after OOTP came out.

I think it's most likely a problem in all pairings - there are more crap fics being put out there than good ones. For the HP/DM maybe it's more noticable because there are tons that, and it's the pairing these people prefer to read (me, included). Sometimes, it seems that if anyone wants to start writing HP slash they start with the HP/DM ship. Maybe because it seems to be the easiest to write.

I don't think that new fics are worse than the older fics, but I started reading fanfics during the long wait between the fourth and fifth book, so I'm not sure that I have much to go by.

I wonder if part of the problem is an "it's all been done before" thing, and that some things become cliche or overdone for those that have been into the pairing since the begining.

Maybe I'm making stuff up, I don't know.

[sciencegeek.livejournal.com]

Er...*myself included.

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

*blushes* Thanks! This really wasn't a plea for feedback, I swear! ;-)

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

That's an interesting thought -- I'm sure the nature of the 'ship has changed, and maybe it's moved in ways that are no longer interesting or exciting to the folks who've been around for a while. Things do evolve, and such internet-based socially constructed concepts as this tend to evolve rather quickly.

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

Interesting! I guess most people on my flist are H/D or Sn/H, so I haven't seen that so much. Or maybe I just ignore the stuff I don't read! ;-)

[(Anonymous)]

I know :) But you're still wonderful :)

(Oh, I did a stupid mistake and commented in a RL journal with my fandom account *blush* I'll be back really soon, I hope. Just long enough for the person to lose interest.)

Pitchblackrose

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

I also think that goes for many pairings. I see very little new novel-length fic anywhere in HP, and I'm not sure why.

Well, I can guess why. As a writer of longer stuff, it takes a different approach to fandom to get it done. LMH, for example, took eight months to complete. A novel-length fic I posted over the summer in another fandom had taken 2 1/2 years to complete! In the meantime, I wrote two other HP ficlets, one of which got very little attention. Most people who are currently well-known and considered BNFs for any HP pairing write a lot of short fic. It gets them noticed. They get recced a lot, and by people who do a lot of reccing.

I don't mean to imply that what I do is any better -- not at all! It's just different. I am often tempted to write and post a lot of ficlets, because that would be fun. I'd feel super productive! My web page would have tons of links on it! It'd be great fun to see my name mentioned a lot on rec lists, for a slew of fic! ;-) But I've made a committment to a big project that I love and feel strongly about, and I don't have time for anything else. Hmmm... I think I've whined about this before! :-P

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

I find all that sociology fascinating too! :-D

And yeah, I wonder if there is an element here of resisting change, or grieving what used to be. Maybe the folks who were attracted to H/D pre-OOTP and the folks who came in after like different kinds of fic. I like the fact that I have to work very hard to get Harry and Draco in the sack. But I've heard other folks say that OOTP pretty much sank the 'ship for them, because now the canon is such that the two are bitter enemies in a way they weren't before. Maybe for some folks, it just doesn;t work anymore.

[carnimiriel.livejournal.com]

This is precisely the point I was about to make! You got to it first though. :D

While I wouldn't say that I've been involved in this fandom since "the golden days", I have been reading HP fanfic for a few years. In general, there's a lot more fanfic being written now (for all pairings) and my personal opinion is that a lot of it is trash. Just take a quick look at FFN if you don't believe me. And the sad fact is that new readers of fanfic will go to large fic websites like that and their intro to the fandom is largely through bad examples. It takes time for readers to identify good writers (and yes, I agree that good fanfic is still being written) and find out how to keep up with their writings (Y!Groups, LJ, etc).

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

Ooooh, I missed you making a post about this! I think I did, at least. I've seen so much of it lately, and I don't really remember where. This post was more a response to the "whispering" I kept hearing, and not directed at any one person.

That art your icon is from is still one of my favorites. Ever.

[primroseburrows.livejournal.com]

So when a new fandom starts up, it attracts the big-wigs, who then move on to something else - thereby perpetuating the idea that "when it all started" the fic was of high quality, and it subsquently declined when those people moved on.

I don't think that BNFs are the only ones who write high-quality fic. There are so many lesser-known writers whose work is incredible. Personally I hate the status of BNFdom anyway, because all it does is cause bad feelings and middle-school kerfuffles and wank, wank, wank.

[patchfire.livejournal.com]

I think you hit the nail on the head in a comment above - that there's not much novel-length fic being written.

I never really thought of myself as an old-timer, but considering I first met people over on SCUSA and not LJ, and that was over two years ago O.O, maybe I am?

But the thing that drew me into the fandom, that drew me into H/D, was novel-length fics. And, damn, I miss novel-length fics. I do think that OotP had something to do with the decline in novel-length fics, especially where H/D is concerned. I can't think of a novel-length immediately-after-OotP H/D fic. (If there is one, Please please rec it to me!!)

I, however, hold out hope - I expect to see more novel-length fic again. I just think it's a cycle. Another two years, and maybe we'll be bemoaning the lack of one-shots. :D

(oh, and came this way via link from primroseburrows. :) )

[sciencegeek.livejournal.com]

Aw, sorry to steal your thunder! But I'm glad I'm not the only one to think this, though. Don't get me wrong, there are some really good fics on FFN (I started there, and ended up sticking with the pairing, so they aren't all bad)...you just need to do a LOT of sifting to find them, which can be frustrating, especially for new readers.

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

The harder it is to get there, the more interested I am in the journey.

Abso-fuckin-lutely! I loved your essay on H/D, btw, along with everyone else! ;-)

I like to read one-shots, but I find it hard to write them. I'm not sure why. I wish I could! But everything I write seems to develop into something huge and plotty, no matter what I do. It slows the writing process considerably. And then, I'm paranoid and get everything beta'd two or three times by at least two people, just to make sure there isn't something I've missed.

Actually, geoviki doesn't write a lot of short stuff either, does she? *feels better*

[chuffing.livejournal.com]

I have a lot to say on this subject and it won't fit here most likely. Before I bore you to death, do you actually want to read it? I mean, I know that I wouldn't want to be subjected to me lol. I was going to email it and then I paused because I wasn't sure. I talk too much. *is embarassed of self*