Now available: Print editions of the Colouring/Book!

[emmagrant01]

By popular request, we've run a limited printing of the Colouring/Book. These will be available while supplies last. Check it out:











For more information and to order a copy for yourself, see THIS POST.

Comments

[helens78]

I'm not sure whether most of it is or not, although certainly what I've run into is. I always get a bit startled when I see past tense in a story these days, so that's a good argument that most of it is, isn't it? Hm.

The reason almost all my work is done in third person present really is for that sense of immediacy. Could I write just as easily in third person past or first person past? Sure. But it would feel a bit more distant than the other things I'm writing.

I think that sense of immediacy is even more important in the roleplay-style RPS I write. One person takes one character, the other person takes the other character (sometimes you play more than one, depending on the needs of the story). Ideally, the two should be seamless enough that you don't notice the POV shifts unless you're actively looking for them, or if you do notice the POV shifts, it seems like a natural part of the story. This is a shockingly addictive form of writing. dragonkal once suggested that it's as addictive as it is because roleplay cowriting has a way of pushing you through writer's block; it never seems to happen during this sort of cowriting. It also has a way of thoroughly grounding you into a character's head in a very short time; I absolutely have muses at this point, and they follow me around while I'm shopping and things like that. I've had the Establishment's Sean Bean point at teapots and say "Oh, we need that!" (to which I usually respond "are you kidding me? I own a teapot!"... but he only listens sometimes).

I'm going to link this over on my JF, I think; if people hop over from there, you should get some interesting responses. I have some people on my JF reading list that much prefer third present and some who strongly prefer third past, and I think I have a few who have no real preference. :)

[msilverstar]

It does feel more natural. I'm writing a prequel to a story and forcing myself to use the past tense, it's surprisingly hard.

[wyomingnot.livejournal.com]

Why is most RPS written in third person present?

I'm thinking you have it right...the immediacy of it. Not that I would know. I've not written any RPS. RPF, yeah. Picky. Of course, even then I write in past tense. I have to make a concious effort to do present tense. Seems to be I use it only on the drabbles. *shrug*

And this I'm going to (*gulp*) write a sequel to Avocado.... Just made my day!

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

The above-mentioned sequel is ready to go. Would you mind giving it a beta for me? If you're interested, could you send me your email? I can't seem to find it anywhere...

[wyomingnot.livejournal.com]

I'd love to do a beta!

Email... same user name at yahoo. :)

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

Cool! On its way...

[delphynn.livejournal.com]

Hi there! *wave wave* I'm on the MA list but mostly I stay in the woodwork. I've done some writing with helens78 and we've discussed this very issue of third person present vs third person past.

It's been an effort to make the switch to third person present for The Establishment (http://www.journalfen.net/community/establishment) for me. Most everyone there comes from fic writing backgrounds and I don't so, it's a tough transition to make.

For me, although the present tense does lend a sense of immediacy to the action and often that delicious sense of being a voyeru as well, it's also difficult to think in, in terms of writing.

The way I put it to helens78 is that I think most published fiction is either in first person past or third person past and so my brain has been preprogrammed to think in that way.

I prefer to write in past tense, I guess because I like the distance it puts between me in the character and often have to write a paragraph in co-written fiction and then go back and change the tenses to agree.

Interesting really that I like to read slash fic in particular in present tense but prefer to write it in past. Huh.

Thanks for the question. :)

[telesilla.livejournal.com]

I really got into writing in the third person present when padawanhilary started doing the screencaps that led to Slacker. They were supposed to be nothing more than descriptions of a picture and so the present made sense.

Then when the Est started up, it became an ingrained habit. Now I literally have to force myself to remember that the Equilibrium fic I'm writing with Hilary and Kal is in past tense, even though I'm the one who made the decision.

[jedirita.livejournal.com]

I've been doing a lot more thinking about this since we last talked about it. In fact, I have an essay written up somewhere in longhand on this topic, but I haven't posted it yet.

I still don't like present tense. For me it does not connote a sense of immediacy but a sense of incompleteness, as if the action in the story has yet to take place. Some of that may be due in no small part to the fact that most fiction is written in past tense, so our brains are just used to hearing a story that way. Also, I can handle first person present better than I can handle third person present. In the case of 3PP, who's the narrator? Who's watching the story unfold and telling me about it? When a story is written in past tense, it always carries a de facto, "Once Upon a Time" at the beginning, thereby locating the story in time: in the past. But the present is such a fleeting moment: as soon as you think about it, it's already the past. So how can a story be located in the present? We live in the present, yes, but the present is always in the process of becoming the past. Therefore if a story is told in the present, it feels incomplete to me. If it's in first person, then the narrator serves as my anchor -- I can handle the fact that the story is not rooted in time, because at least it is rooted in a place: the narrator. But if it's third person, so that there is no obvious narrator, the story is not rooted in either time or place, and it bothers me. I feel distanced from the story, not drawn into it.

On a more practical level, since 3PP is so uncommon (outside of RPS fic), it draws attention to itself as a technique. I'm of the school that writing should not draw attention to itself (god, I can be SO conservative sometimes, it scares me!), therefore you have to ask yourself: is 3PP worth potentially upsetting the flow for my readers? Whatever you write should serve the purpose of the story itself. I offer my perspective not as the definitive meaning, but to say that not everyone experiences a sense of immediacy in 3PP. For me, it is an obstacle -- not an insurmountable one, but certainly a frustrating one.

Interestingly, the only time I can think of when I ever wrote in 3PP was in those interludes for "Reconstruction," and I did it then because of the sense of detatchment and dislocation, NOT because it conveyed a sense of immediacy. I wanted those interludes not to be located in time or space. I also deliberately never used Bail's name in them, nor were the interludes told in consecutive order.

[kyuuketsukirui.livejournal.com]

I agree with you about the sense of incompleteness, but that's one of the things I *like* about present tense. It feels more spontaneous, I guess. I like the fact that it makes it feel (to me) as if the story is happening now and could go anywhere, whereas past tense feels so finished. It's happened and there's nothing you can do about it.

About half the fic I wrote before I started doing predominately RPS was present tense, but it was first person. I started using third person with RPS because I started off in a game setting and writing first person porn with someone else would feel very, very weird. :D

Because I read so much third person present, it *doesn't* call attention to itself as a technique. I'm used to it. It's what I expect, whether reading RPS or other. In fact, I often find myself reading along and noticing when things are past tense because it sticks out like a sore thumb to me now. Especially in sex scenes. Past tense sex scenes *always* read weird to me, which is one reason so much of my fic was present tense even before RPS. They seem oddly detached and clinical, lacking that immediacy that I feel with present tense. I don't think a writing style or technique should call attention to itself either, but what calls attention to itself differs from person to person. You don't read a lot of it, so it stands out for you.

As for the narrator, I'd never thought of that. I don't think in those terms at all, of there being a separate narrator. It's just happening, and it's he and him because the writer and the reader are witnessing it, I guess is the only thing I can come up with. If I write in third person past (which I have done, though maybe only a few times), I don't think of there as being a separate narrator, so why should first person be any different?

almost as if the writer snuck into the room to watch and furiously scribbled what she saw as she saw it

That's a very interesting way of putting it. Certainly not anything I would have come up with, because I don't associate my characters (or those of any RPS story I'm reading) with the actors they're based on.

Anyway, this is a fascinating discussion. I was pointed here by Helens, by the way. :)

[(Anonymous)]

Hmm. My only excuse is that I'm primarily a slash ROLEPLAYER, so everything we do IS present-tense. :)

[dexwebster]

I wonder if this has something to do with the format we take in canon for a given fandom. In media fandoms, because they're already fiction, there's usually already a definite narrative in place, and it's usually in the third person past (almost always in books, and as much as you can say a TV show or movie will have a typical narrative tense). Maybe because the majority of the source material in RPS is in present tense, in a way--interviews, candid footage, magazine articles--we're more inclined to produce it that way?

[merryish.livejournal.com]

Hmmm. I like that theory.

For my part, I think almost everything I've written in RPS has been in 3rd person past; but the one? two? in present, I wrote a lot faster; there's an immediacy that I don't think is related to the subject matter so much as to my own feelings and reactions that just makes the words flow more quickly and more smoothly. In 3rd person present, I have better access to my gut, in some ways.

Of course, there's also an argument to be made that the more intuitive it is, the more editing you need. =) But that's another discussion.

[cathexys.livejournal.com]

i'd been meaning to post several times and always some disaster got in the way :-) plus i feel much too not comprehensively read to make such a statement but...i really don't think the statement holds true for popslash. i looked through my hd and probably 70% of the fics (if not more, b/c the majority are the longer ones) were past tense...merry, can you confirm that???

[and then my next question, of course *g*, would be whether there is a fundamental difference between actor slash and popslash...plus we'd need to check out those wrestling folks!]