Two rants

[emmagrant01]

Okay, this has been coming for a while, and two posts I saw today have triggered this. I don't think these are unpopular fandom opinions, and I want to put them out there in order to tell people that they aren't alone.

1) I have seen lots of posts and comments lately bitching about the fact that Hermione and Ginny are reduced to baby-making machines in the Epilogue, apparently on the sole basis that they are depicted in the Epilogue *gasp* with children.

Okay, what? What about Harry and Ron? Why aren't people complaining that they've been reduced to sperm donors? The assumption seems to be that Harry and Ron are doing "worthwhile" things with their lives, while Hermione and Ginny have been "reduced" to being mere mothers. JKR's comments today notwithstanding, is it really that hard to imagine that Ginny works at the Ministry and Harry stays home with his kids? Or that both of them work and Kreacher is the nanny?

The presumption that a woman who has children is no longer capable of contributing to the world (or that raising children is not itself a contribution) is offensive to me on so many levels that I hardly know where to begin. In a female-dominated fandom, I would expect there to be far more respect for women and their choices than that.

2) I can't believe I have to say this, but: fan fiction does NOT have rules. Fan fiction is about creativity, about telling a story you want to tell. It's about picking up where the author left off, changing something she did in canon that you wish hadn't happened, or envisioning an alternative future for the characters. It's about subtext, reading between the lines, and making the unlikely feasible. It's about slashing characters who hardly glance at each other in the books, just because you want to.

It's about exploring a side of your sexuality you aren't ready to explore in real life. It's about exploring topics that may be difficult to talk about without the medium of fiction. It's about challenging yourself, improving your writing skills, or not -- not everyone is here to be a better writer, and that's okay. It's about interacting with the canon material by giving it your own twist, adding your own interpretation of events.

It's about writing an adventure with characters you love in a universe you obsess over. It's about rewriting a scene you thought the author could have done a better job with. It's about resurrecting a character that you wish hadn't died, or killing off one you wish had. It's about making canon work for you, or ignoring the bits that don't. It's about creating original characters to interact with the canonical ones, even if they're self-insertions. It's about adding something new to a universe you love.

It's about anything you want it to be. There are no rules. That's the point, actually. No one gets to decide what kind of fanfic is allowed in fandom. Everyone has an opinion about what they like and what they don't, and there's nothing wrong with that. But to say a particular genre of fanfic shouldn't be written, or that certain pairings are no longer allowed because canon has established what the "real" pairings are? Not on, people. Not on.

Spoilers likely in comments.

Comments

[rickey-a.livejournal.com]

You are my hero!

[daisy-chan.livejournal.com]

1) Actually, it's funny that you say that, since the first thing that popped into my head when I read your post earlier was "Oh, and Hermione can't be an Auror because she's a woman? Thanks JKR."

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

Well, I honestly think Hermione has better contributions to the WW than being an auror. ;-) And it's not like we haven't seen female aurors in canon.

[katieupsidedown.livejournal.com]

Okay, what? What about Harry and Ron? Why aren't people complaining that they've been reduced to sperm donors?

I think it's something to do with the fact that the women are the ones who are waddling around and having insane mood swings like ducks on acid for 4 months, then have to actually give birth, whereas the guys just get laid and go about without their bodies being warped at all.

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

Oh, and after that experience they're no longer capable of doing what men do? Give me a break. :-P

[scarah2.livejournal.com]

Why aren't people complaining that they've been reduced to sperm donors?

Lol Jergen's dispensers.

[mermaidqueen.livejournal.com]

werd

[maple-mahogany.livejournal.com]

Oh - I have SO had the motherhood-in-potterverse rant building inside of me. pisses me off that so many women (because as you say, it is a woman dominated fandom) belittle the value of motherhood.

*chews hand to keep from saying more*

[araythea.livejournal.com]

1. I could go off on SO many tantrums here. Being a mother is the hardest and most worthwhile job I've ever had. I don't mind people teasing that Ginny and Hermione are breeders, I think it's funny if not taken in mean and honestly pissed off directions. I think the fact that I'm a single mom and have 3 kids says my opinion better than trying to keep calm and explain.

2. Word!

[ura-hd.livejournal.com]

Well said!

[j-folked.livejournal.com]

BRAVO!

[hearts-n-roses.livejournal.com]

You're right on all levels.

I'm a professional woman with 4 kids (2 of mine, 2 of hers). Being a Mom isn't the be all end all of who I am but it's a pretty huge part. Can't see why there's anything wrong with that in fiction or in RL.

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

I love the fact that there are so many moms in fandom. It gives me reassurance that parenthood won't force me to eliminate this from my life, you know?

[joesther.livejournal.com]

I've heard other people complain about the "babymaking machine" comments, and I'm like... hello? Has anyone counted? We're talking 3 children, and 2 children, respectively, in NINETEEN YEARS!! OK, so we're not assuming they got married right after the end of the story. We'll give them... eh... nine years to get their shit together, but still. Ten years. For three kids and two kids? Sheesh. If that's a babymaking machine, then my mother better line up and join the club. And personally, I have a feeling that those who are complaining are those who are unhappy that their ships sunk. Just a hunch.

But to say a particular genre of fanfic shouldn't be written, or that certain pairings are no longer allowed because canon has established what the "real" pairings are? Not on, people. Not on.

As to the fanfic, people should be able to write whatever they want to write. The choice belongs to the reader. Some people don't want to read Cheating!Harry (or Draco, or whoever). OK, fine. Their call. Some don't want to read slash. Others hate het *cough*. But that decision is the reader's. I'm actually appalled that some people have this kind of audacity. Oh. Wait. This is HP fandom. No I'm not. :P

[joesther.livejournal.com]

OK, so my math went a bit wonky with the kids, but you get my point. Right? ;)

[belleweather.livejournal.com]

I don't think it's about the epilouge, I think it's about JKR's recent interview where she talks about how Harry, Hermione and Ron work in the ministry -- Harry and Ron in the Auror dept. and Hermione in law enforcement but there is no mention of Ginny having a career or doing anything at all, even taking care of her kids or being a homemaker like Molly. Which pisses me off, but doesn't suprise me considering how JKR has treated her in the series.

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

No, it's about the epilogue. I've been seeing these comments from the moment I finished the book and started reading DH reviews on my flist. I was going to keep my mouth shut, but I can't any more.

[lolitaray.livejournal.com]

All I can say is simply...thank you. :)

[romaine24.livejournal.com]

I'm speechless. You read my thoughts and made them coherent. *grin* That's actually quite an accomplishment!

"Thank you!"

BTW I'm sure JKR will mention what Ginny is up to soon. If she has been home raising her three kids, well that is enough for me. I for one would be happy being HP's wife and mother to his kids. *snicker*

[ciel-vert.livejournal.com]

In reference to point number one: Before JKR made her statement today about the Trio's careers, I honestly had envisioned that Harry was the one to stay home with the kids and Ginny would be the one with the career at the Ministry. Go fig.

But I think the anti-motherhood sentiment is just spillage from society today; where young women aren't given a chance to get into good careers because the people in charge think they're 2 seconds away from getting married, pregnant, and demanding maternity leave and half-time etc; where women who have stayed home to have and raise their kids aren't given a chance to get back into the working world at the same level they were when they left; and where working moms have to do too much choosing between their careers and their kids because it's very difficult to have both. The problem with this is, the anger is misplaced. It's not mothers and the trappings of motherhood we should be angry at; it's the continued double standards women are held to in the working world vis a vis our paternalistic society. But that's a whole other essay!

Point 2: hells yeah!

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

Issues surrounding motherhood are fraught with drama these days, and there really isn't any way around it. I wish people would just respect each other's choices about their bodies and their lives and not make judgments about people who have made different choices.

But that's not bloody likely, is it?

[kerryblaze.livejournal.com]

The "baby-breeder" think really got me upset. And you're right. They accuse JKR of being sexist, yet never consider the possibility that Ron or Harry were full-time dads.

And Kreacher as the nanny? Who would've ever thought that possible before DH?

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

LOL, seriously!

[helens78]

Or that both of them work and Kreacher is the nanny?

Oh my God, I want this story so badly! :D

I've heard ranting not just about the motherhood issue but about there being kids in the first place. Which just... I'm sorry, but you know, whether I want kids or not, I'm not offended by their existence and it can sometimes be a relief to realize that most other people aren't, either.

Anyway, the whole "woah kids!" thing struck me as absurdly quick, too, until I did the math -- so, okay, the oldest of Harry and Ginny's kids is twelve or thirteen. So they waited six or seven years to have kids...

...which is totally making me think of what happened in the intervening six or seven years and I really shouldn't be going there yet, but hey...

...which isn't fast at all.

Really, that there's even any question of whether people "can" do whatever they want now that new information's been added seems really odd to me, 'cause it's fanfic, of course you can! That's the whole point!

And coming from TPM, the EWE issue is right up there with The Thing That Didn't Happen... I guess it feels more natural to write off an epilogue and reboot canon from a previous moment when the entire fandom I came into fic for was based on that one thing. :D

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

I think most people are fine with ignoring the epilogue, or even with ignoring certain deaths (or finding ways to resurrect those characters), actually. And those who aren't fine with that are absolutely entitled to their opinions, unless they start insisting that their way is the Right Way. :-P

[furiosity.livejournal.com]

1) Christ, I know, right? It's like none of those people's mothers have ever held down a job, or something.

2) I do not agree with you that fanfic is "about making canon work for you, or ignoring the bits that don't", but rules? Nah. Strong opinions, I can dig, but wtf rules? I've heard people go "hee, you can't write Harry/Draco any more because Harry is married to Ginny!1" Um, yeah, watch me do it and do it within canon boundaries, too. :))

All was well. Suddenly, the Hogwarts Express stopped, reversed, and ran over Ginny. Harry was very sad.

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

Thats ironic, because I was thinking of you when I wrote the "making canon work for you" bit, because that's my impression of how you work, that you want to take canon as a framework to work within and around without altering it. I'm not as married to canon as that, but I have no issue with people who are.

[brumeux77.livejournal.com]

I'm in a hurry, so I have to be brief:

Right on!

[jlh.livejournal.com]

People saying that Hermione and Ginny are baby machines—you know, I don't agree with them.

But people saying that ships are sunk? Ships are never sunk! I can do anything I want! I've always found it odd that some folks think that because a ship won't happen in the books it shouldn't happen in fanfic—isn't that what fanfic is for?

[chickadilly.livejournal.com]

God, yes. Thank you.

[luci0logy.livejournal.com]

#1 I haven't seen any of the baby making posts, but off the top of my head here's my 2 cents worth about the role of women in the books.

Regarding mothers: Molly appears to do little else but cook and clean, Narcissa doesn't seem to do anything worth mentioning. Mothers who had careers are either dead or in St Mungo's.

Regarding witches with careers: based upon the evidence in canon, all the female teachers of Hogwarts appear to be single, or if not single then with no young children. Not sure about members of the Wizengamot or Madam Rosmerta.

As for Ginny, isn't it obvious? She's the nanny because Harry's a widower and pining after Draco.

#2 Precisely!

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

There are plenty of women in the books who have careers and families. Half of the Wizengamot is comprised of women, for example, some of whom we know to be parents or grandparents of Hogwarts students. The shops in Diagon Alley and Hogsmeade are mentioned as being run by women as often as men, and I doubt there aren't families there. Tonks and Alice Longbottom are two examples of female aurors (and mothers who didn't back away from their jobs just because they had children), and I know there were more in canon that I can't remember. None of the teachers at Hogwarts, male or female, seem to be married. None have children to my knowledge.

I guess I don't buy the argument that JKR is sexist in that way.

[oceaxe.livejournal.com]

This is obviously not at all verifiable, but I have a feeling that a lot of the people making the "baby-making machine" complaints are young women who have not come to terms with their own physicality/sexuality/power in the world. They honestly may fear that their bodies are their enemies, or that motherhood ends one's viability as an independent, thinking being. I can understand being afraid to have children, and I can understand over-identification with a character. If I were 17 and had just finished this book, I would probably have had a similar reaction.

But I applaud your statements, as young women need to know that, terrifying as motherhood is, it can be a worthwhile and laudatory endeavor. And, as you point out, the epilogue does not say whether Hermione or Ginny work outside the home or not, nor what Harry and Ron do. I'm of the opinion that Harry plays professional Quidditch for a while, then becomes an Auror for a very brief while, then decides to be a stay at home dad.

[mizbean.livejournal.com]

The anti-mother thing bothers for a couple of reasons. You have people praising Narcissa for finally showing some personality, yet her sole motivation in DH is protecting her family (not a dishonorable POV to have by any means), the protection Harry receives throughout canon is due to his mother's sacrifice, which I guess isn't kickass enough. Not to mention Lily was an Auror herself. And then there's the fact that so many woman in fandom, including me, are working mothers. I guess by that sentiment I shouldn't be hanging around here because my life already ended when I had children.

Oop, I think I just wanked.

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

I was thinking Lily was an Auror, but I couldn't remember. Is that canon?

[abovethestars.livejournal.com]

well I haven't see posts for your first topic but I wonder if it stems from the women in HP world seemingly only being a mother or working in the wizarding world. I think our only canon example of a mother who works is Alice Longbottom. I was hoping we were going to find out Lily's career...but alas. Not that motherhood is a wonderful life, but it seems that there is a diacotomy between the HP women who are mothers or are in careers.

And dear lord yes for rant number #2! PEople are freaking out all over the place about what can and can't be written! WRITE IT ALL! LONG LIVE SLASH!

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

The fist rant is about a lot of different comments I've seen in DH reviews. It finally got to me. :-P

There are plenty of canon examples of women who are mothers and work. I listed a bunch of them in a comment above, actually.