ITLAPD and a poll about non-con

[emmagrant01]

They're even doing pirate talk on Regis & Kelly. The world feels like a very small place today.

On another topic entirely: I posted a fic the other day that had a non-con warning on it, and the response to it was pretty interesting. A lot of people commented that they had been hesitant to read it because of that warning, but for whatever reason read it anyway. So I was flattered, of course, but also intrigued. I almost didn't label it as non-con, because I wasn't sure it technically qualified. I decided to add that label for the heck of it, and didn't really think that a significant number of people would avoid reading it as a result.

[Poll #824833]

How would you define non-con? Is there really such a thing as "mild" non-con, or do you categorize it all in the same way?

Comments

[best-of-five.livejournal.com]

i'll probably be mildly to moderately upset.

but your poll raises a good question - i don't mind reading bond/spell/forced relationship fics but non-con squicks the hell outta me. i have no idea why...

[florahart]

Heh. For number 2:

I often click. It depends on the author, whether I'm in the mood for non-con, and the pairing. And whether I am clear on degree. Because yes, I think there are degrees of non-versus-dubious consent.

[severusslave-76.livejournal.com]

For me, non-con is non-con - I equate "mild" non-con as equal to being "sort of" preggers. It either is, or it isn't.

[piratesmile331.livejournal.com]

In reference to question #3, it wouldn't bother me, because I kinda enjoy non-con (depending who writes it). But it all depends on what squicks you, I suppose. I mean, if there was a character death in a fic, and there had been no warning, that would bother me, because I avoid character death fics.

[damned-queen.livejournal.com]

I enjoy reading non-con most of the time, but it really depends on the pairing. For instance, I really like Lucius/Harry as a pairing so you don't expect to find anything but non-con if you start reading a story featuring that pairing (it'd be quite disturbing if they managed to write something that wouldn't qualify as non-con). However, when I read H/D I usually skip the non-con stories because I personally think it doesn't quite fit with the pairing... I know that doesn't make much sense but that's the way I feel it.

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

Ah, interesting. So for you, a fic in which one of the characters attempted to rape another but wasn't successful would be in the same category as one that featured a violent, brutal rape?

[asinful.livejournal.com]

As a general rule I do tend to avoid non-con. However to reply to the last question in your poll, if there’s non-con in a fic I’m reading and it was not warned for, I would most likely be fine with it as long as I am enjoying the fic overall. I can often overlook certain things that do squick me otherwise if I like a particular fic.

How a person defines non-con is a very good question. It all depends on how a particular person perceives a situation. I guess for me it is considered non-con if there’s coercion, threats or fear involved, or if the person does not fully understand the nature of the act.

[severusslave-76.livejournal.com]

Yeah. It's still a violation, and for me the point is the act itself, not if it was completed. It makes it no less powerful or upsetting (to some people - not myself) if it was merely attempted or completed. Personally, I'll read non-con if it's included in a story I'd normally read. That is a pairing(s) I like, and the story is well told and interesting.

[libby-drew.livejournal.com]

I think you'll probably find as wide a range of opinion on the meaning of "non-con" as you might on, say, AU. It means different things to different people, which is no doubt directly related to why they may or may not read it.

To expand on my answer on question 2 - Some authors have, over time, earned my readership. I will try just about anything they put out there, simply because they consistently provide a quality, entertaining read. I trust them. So, for example, a story with a character death - something I truly hate - would be passed over unless I recognize the author as someone I trust.

[karaz.livejournal.com]

I don't mind dub-con, sometimes even enjoy it. Depending on the author and the pairing - non-con works occasionally. However, it's not a kink of mine. I really don't enjoy the violence that usually accompanies non-con and when it has nothing to do with a larger plot I'm definitely going to avoid it.

[titti]

For number 3, I wouldn't get upset, because I've got more important things over which to get upset, but I'd stop reading, and it would be unlikely that I read anything by that person again.

Also to me there so no such thing as mild non-con, dubious consent. You either give consent or you don't, no in betweens.

[http://users.livejournal.com/reciprocity_/]

Non-con tends to go hand in hand with angst, it has that sort of quality. Reading severe angst, particularily if it doesn't resolve itself, just makes me feel really physically sick. I imagine non con would have similar effects. Theres only a few situations I could really imagine enjoying it in fic, like those sudden unwanted bond fics etc, but for the most part it doesn't settle well with me.

I think in order to read it, someone would have to explain the plot of the fic and the nature of the story, so I'd know what I was getting into - having it be a surprise would jsut make it worse. For example - I didn't read the fic you posted ( no offence!) because of the warning...

LOL I'm weird i guess - to get sick from fic - but it just sort of happens.

[ravenna-c-tan.livejournal.com]

There are definitely varying degrees of severity in non-con, but they should probably all be warned for just because people are so touchy about it. I'm one of those who clicks immediately as I enjoy a good story with pain, fear, and coercion (though I would say that coercion implies dubious consent).

[kerryblaze.livejournal.com]

Non-con, for me, depends on the pairing. I would never read a Harry/Ron if it had a non-con warning. But I might read say, Draco/Snape if it did.

[silver-osiris.livejournal.com]

Non-con is a big kink of mine.
But I will admit that the pairings and the author has some effect on whether or not I'll read it. For example: I love a good H/D non-con (regardless of who's dominant), but only if it's well written. I realize that the whole non-con concept has the likelihood of being OOC on some level (at least w/ the "good guys"), but there's a difference for me between a lil' OOC and OMGWTFBBQ! OOC.

[pallojaketju.livejournal.com]

It really depends on the author and the pairing. For instance, as soon as I saw your new fic and H/D as the pairing I started reading. Didn't pay any attention to the warnings xD

[aldebaran1977.livejournal.com]

I`d define mild non-con as either only an attempted non-con sexual act or talking about it as an event in the past which is not written explicitly or as a very short episode in a very long story.

As i´m only reading H/D it was difficult to decide on Question No. 2. I´d never read it, if it is featuring a different pairing because I generally don`t read stories with other main pairings. And it does not solely depend on the author. But an author that is known to me for writing quality fics might sell me a story with a lot of warnings that I usually avoid. But non-con is not a squick of mine nor a special kink. As the only warning it would not make me avoid the story. There have to follow more detering warnings or an off putting summary.

But I have to admit that I might not have read your story, if it had been written by anybody else...

[aldebaran1977.livejournal.com]

I don`t think that non con sex between Harry and Draco with harry in the dominant position is any more OOC than those boys saying "I love you" in every second sentence!

[lauramcewan.livejournal.com]

If you read a fic containing mild non-con and no warning, how would you react?

Well.....if I come across it in a pro-novel, I just accept it's part of the story. They sure as heck don't put the warning on the book jacket unless it's really a factor of the entire book. In a fic, I'll generally do the same thing, BUT! I like having warnings so I know what to look for. :D

[allysonsedai.livejournal.com]

I know the fic you're referring to and I didn't read it because it said non-con. I'm just not too big on that as a general rule, but I will read it on occasion. However, the main reason I avoid it is that non-con signals 'dark & angsty' to me, and that's a bigger turn off than the actual non-con.

That being said, if I read an unlabeled fic that happened to have non-con in it I would either have 1)quit reading already because of other elements or 2)wouldn't care because if I had gotten that far I must be enjoying it. :)

[atdelphi.livejournal.com]

I tend to differentiate non-con ratings because the term can raise completely different definitions and gut-reactions in different people. To me, non-con is different from dubious consent (where the person consents but has doubts, or is not of an age or state of mind to properly consent) is different from coercion (where the person protests but is manipulated into giving consent) is different from rape (outright violence, not a rape fantasy, no eroticization.) In one story I wrote, in which there was a twist that revealed the character was not just enjoying a drunken fantasy but had actually assaulted someone, I warned simply for "disturbing themes," which I figured would keep away those sensitive to darker fics without giving away the ending.

[helens78]

I'm one of the people who answered "something else" for #3. My reaction would depend on context. Does the scene work perfectly within the story? Does it feel out of place at all? Are the characters behaving the way I see them in the canon we're all coming from? If all those work, then I'm reading it for the story, and I shouldn't have an OMGWTF reaction to seeing non-con with no warning.

There's also the question of the purpose. If it's purely a dominant-power act and it's not intented to show sexual gratification for both parties, I'm going to be a lot more bothered and squicked by it than I would be otherwise.

My favorite brand of non-con is semi-con or dubious con., either of which involve a "victim" who is somehow wanting and enjoying the act. There's a million different ways that can go, but the idea that intrigues me most these days is a charater who "tricks" someone into raping him/her, when in reality that's their biggest fantasy. So it's consensual from their end and consensual in the audience's eyes, but as far as the rapist is concerned, it's rape. I think that's a really interesting possibility.

[fiona-fawkes.livejournal.com]

I think of "mild" non-con as dubious consent. And to me, this means anything that could easily be argued as to whether or not it is truly non-con. If a fic has a dubious consent warning, I may go ahead and read it, if it's by an author that I trust or the summary has me intrigued. As for straight up non-con, in the real world, it's called rape, and I refuse to read about it for sexual enjoyment.

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

What if it's not written for sexual enjoyment, though? What if a rape scene is not depicted as something intended to be erotic, but is part of the plot?

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

That made me laugh, I have to say! ;-)