A question about reccing.

[emmagrant01]

A team of us are hard at work updating the Post-Hogwarts H/D Master List, and a question has come up that we aren't sure how to answer. Help?

[Poll #677090]

Thank you!!

ETA: Just to clarify, we will be marking fics that are password protected or flocked, so readers will know before they click. (In the new system, it will be listed in the warnings.)

The other thing I should say is that this is not really a list of recs, but a list of all fics that fit in that category, so it's intended to be thorough and comprehensive. And in the past, we've looked extensively for the fic off LJ before we had to resort to linking to a locked post. I've always assumed that people were locking their stuff to keep RL folks who read their LJ from finding it, or to try to keep kids from reading/seeing their porn, but maybe that's not the biggest reason people flock?

So I guess the question is, if you lock your stuff for the reason I've listed above, would you still prefer it not be recced?

ETA 2: Meep. No need to get snippy about how annoying you find it to follow links to flocked fic. Please read the ETA above before you tell me how much you hate that. Actually, I'm really interested in hearing from people who flock their work about what they would prefer.

Comments

[thalia]

Speaking as a non-writer, I probably wouldn't ever go to the trouble of getting on someone's flist just to read a locked story. I'll skip right over any recs of locked stories. (And I'm pretty much the same with password protection; it takes a *lot* of recs to get me to go to the trouble of getting a password.)

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

I totally agree. I prefer to post links to sites where there's open access, if possible. I'm lazy, and there are plenty of fics out there. If it's difficult to get to one, I'll just move on to the next one. ;-)

[happiestwhen.livejournal.com]

Question Two: At the moment my entire journal is friends-locked (due to a nosy cousin finding my journal a few months back and snooping around), so my fic gets locked by default. I'm making the transition of moving all of my writing into a new journal (where it stays unlocked) so that people don't have to feel obligated to friend me in order to have access to my stories.

Question Three: I don't mind if people rec or link flocked things, but it's nice to say that it's flocked to save people who aren't friended the frustration of clicking a link they can't view (if the reccer is aware, of course -- I know I'm guilty of accidentally linking to friends-locked stuff because I just didn't notice the little lock on the post to begin with). There is a link in my sidebar both to my Skyehawke account and my writing journal, so if people are uncomfortable linking to friends-locked posts of mine, they always have that as a resource, too. The "no, it's locked for a reason" response is interesting because I usually see that pertaining more to a post where someone not only recs the fic, but also c/ps lines from it, etc etc. As long as they aren't re-posting parts of someone else's work (especially the NC-17 parts, for example) then linking to the flocked post doesn't really do any harm, as long as it's labeled as being under a friends-lock.

Question Four: Wellll..... I always like being told if I'm recced/linked. Gives me a warmfuzzy feeling. :P

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

I know some people are paranoid about RL folks coming across their NC-17 stuff and that's why they lock it, but they're happy to grant access to people who join their comm, or whatever. And I edited the post to clarify that we will be marking those as locked.

[pauraque]

Question 3: Depends. If it's a matter of requesting access, then a rec that includes that information is reasonable. What I completely don't understand is when people rec/link to a post that is friends-locked, and there is not any way for me to request access. It amazes me that people do this, but they do.

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

Including info about how to get access is a good idea. In the past, we've done that with password-protected sites.

[starrysummer.livejournal.com]

I don't link to locked stuff if I notice that it's locked, since it seems pointless to link to stuff that a lot of people seeing the rec can't view. Unless it's a community for NC-17 art or something like that that allows anyone of a certain age to join and view, it seems like it's kind of rude/pointless to link to locked stuff.

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

I guess I'm not wanting to leave anyone off of what's supposed to be a complete list when they've only locked their fic to keep their kids from finding it. That's the sort of case I'm wondering about, not so much the person who, for whatever reason, only wants the eight people on their flist to read their fic. Is there a differnece, do you think?

[painless-j.livejournal.com]

From a reccer's side, I don't [normally] link to f-locked stuff. I do it only when the fic was archived but the archive moved/died/smth else like that so the open link is lost, more a reminder for myself to find another link. I don't want to, I dunno, coerce readers? To read a f-locked fic they will have to friend a person and read everything else of theirs, including every ramble about their cat and aunt, on their flist. Seems a bit skewed. Besides, a fic might have been locked because a writer doesn't want it to be read by people beside the close group they know well.

I do link to password protected archives though, such as ISF, The RS, HP/SS FQF, where there's such a number of various fics that most people are ready to bother to get the password. Besides, they are *arhives*, so if somebody posted their fic there, they must realise that the fic becomes open for public.

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

Is that true for your thematic lists as well? And do you include communities (which people have to join to get access), or are those the same as flocked stuff, IYO?

[elucreh.livejournal.com]

Mine's flocked for the reason you assumed...I have RL folks who can find it and parents who would have heart attacks.

But usually I post it to at least one community so that it can be read by the general public, so...

[souliesoul.livejournal.com]

It isn't so much about the reader adding the writer - it's the writer being willing to add the *reader* so you can actually *read* the fic in the locked post. That doesn't always happen (too big flist already, or just can't be bothered or something, not because of age, which is understandable), which is very disappointing to the potential reader, because if they've seen it recced they'll know what they're missing out on.

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

Right, that's the issue. Of course, if the writer is posting in their own comm, that's less of an issue, because many more people can join a comm (and have access to locked material in it) than any one person could ever friend. I'm not sure how many people know that, though. Having your own LJ comm to post your locked stuff in is sort of like having your own Yahoo group -- convenient, but maybe a little conceited. :-P

[aviss.livejournal.com]

Actually, in my case, I flock my fics just for that reason, because there are some people from RL who have my LJ and I don't want them to find out about the "other stuff" I do.

[helens78]

Right now I have nothing flocked. That's about to change, because I'm going to be posting something original in the next few months (!), and would rather not have original work out in the open, so to speak. That obviously won't apply here, but there are some people I've known who flock their fic because they might eventually publish, or because they are already published authors who, for various complicated reasons, can't have publicly available fanfic online.

So totally a minority reason! :D But it's one possibility.

Also, I would and will rec flocked fic if it's a matter of "this person will friend you if you friend them first/leave a comment for access", but it better be the best fic I've ever read. If it's just one in a list of a dozen decent recs, then I won't bother.

[longtimegone]

I don't write nor do I usually rec (to be honest I don't read all that much fic lately) but I know I'm irritated when I'm recced a fic through a link only to find it's locked.

I can understand a community or whatever that has age limits to join as liability protection, but I'm not going to friend someone just to read a fic. If the linked rec is noted as locked, I usually don't even bother. It's a passing and largely minor irritation, but it flares up briefly nonetheless. YMMV, of course.

[qurinas.livejournal.com]

I should have read the ETA but, I just find it annoying when you can't get to something you really wanted to read/see becuase it is friend's locked. Such a tease! ;)

[snackbreak.livejournal.com]

Why do you regularly flock your fic or art posted on LJ?

In case someone finds my journal... like an employer or my parents. I write rarely and it is all in the PG range, but I try to lock anything remotely embarassing or scandalous just in case.

[littleroo27.livejournal.com]

as a reader, I hate reading the summary to a great sounding rec and then finding out it's either locked or password protected. Perhaps a seperate listing for protected fics? That way people who are willing to go through the trouble (or already have accounts with those sites) can do so.

[sciencegeek.livejournal.com]

I'm lazy, and if somethings locked, I usually can't be bothered to get to it. I am a member of some password protected sites (long story short: stories recc'd on crack_broom or something, and it was a point in my life when I actually had time), and I have all the passwords in a nice folder in case I ever need them again. As I think I've told you before, I tend read most fic on LJ, so don't usually need the passwords. I figure if I don't want easy access for RL people to read my fic, I can always post it to a community (which takes more work to find for them), and flock a link to it or something if need be, so at least it's still accessible, you know?

A rambly aside: I have posted backdated fic/drabble, and then locked a link to it in my LJ - it was the first thing I ever wrote, and was rather nervous about it. Also, I have people on my flist not in fandom, that may feel uncomfortable finding fic on their flist (though, I do now warn about that in my userinfo and don't bother).

[simons-flower.livejournal.com]

Personally, I'm annoyed when someone recs something on LJ that's locked. If it's recced in an archive that requires an age-statement, that's fine and I'll probably join to read. If it's flocked and recced, I'm merely annoyed.

An flocked fic, to me, means that only an exclusive group can read it -- unless it's a community with fairly open membership. If it's a personal journal and locked, I don't go back and I don't friend.

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

Well, geez -- I'm just trying to provide a service to the fandom here. If it says "flocked", would you be annoyed that I even posted a link at all? It kind of sounds like you'd be offended even to see a link to a fic with a note that it was locked. Forgive me if I'm presuming, but that sounds a bit extreme. Some people might still be interested in going to the trouble of reading the fic, after all.

[doxxed-up.livejournal.com]

I flock them because some people from RL discovered my journal: the problem of not having your own computer and only having internet access through net cafés.
So, I flock my fics and recs, just so they don't trod on them by accident... see, I haven't come out of my slashy closet.
I'll be waiting for this, your recs are fantastic ♥

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

So does that mean you are in the camp that doesn't mind them being linked to?

And thanks -- we've really put in a lot of time in the last week! :-P

[somewhatdeluded.livejournal.com]

Question 3: I only rec/link to flocked fic or art if the fic/art is flocked for age reasons, and it is readily apparent from the journal's userinfo or an obvious unsecured post about how to get yourself approved for access. This is equally true for password-protected archives off LJ. I also try to provide a link to the information on how to get access, and I warn when I link.

While this is sort of a different topic, in general, I think that a friends-locked entry is *not* the correct way to protect your fic. Friends-locking isn't 100% secure, so I wouldn't rely on it to keep your NC-17 stuff away from RL folk, and if you're doing it for legal reasons, I think you need to research about exactly how legally responsible you are if someone under the age of majority says they are of age to get access to your fic. If you live in the U.S. and you aren't actually doing to verify their age, which most people who flock NC-17 stuff aren't, you may actually be *more* legally responsible for a minor who gets access to your stuff than if you just put up a warning that says "adults only, don't click if you're not of age, I take no responsibility for any one clicking on this link if it's illegal for them where they live." I don't really get it, but I had a lawyer buddy explain it to me once, and that's what she said.

[somewhatdeluded.livejournal.com]

BTW, that is the incorrectly used generic "you", not "you" being Emma. :} I just wanted to include that comment as a note, since I've been sort of trying to spread the word about the potential weirdness of the legal issue.

[elsie.livejournal.com]

Aren't you a math teacher? :P

So, then. I am not AT ALL a prolific writer, but I have tons of stuff in the works for when I can get a break from school and other RL stresses/obligations. I recently flocked my entire journal and it's going to stay that way, but I created a non flocked comm to post my fic. Everything I write is/will be posted there as well as on my journal/other comms (with the odd exception of some gift fics and stuff like that). Adult-rated fics will be locked to members of the community, and I ask for an age statement before I'll add someone.

I don't mind anyone reading my writing (or reccing it! :D), but I do want to reduce my chances of getting slammed for opening up adult content to the general public. Note that my adult-rated stuff stays visible on my journal to those I have friended.

As far as reccing goes ... as I said, I'd be delighted if someone were to do it. When I post fic in my journal, unless it's adult I link to the fic comm instead of posting the fic directly into my journal, to keep feedback all in one place. Plus, if someone wants to rec my fic, they'll be linking to the public post on the comm. The exception, of course, is if it's adult and therefore locked. In that case, I'd hope the reccer would link to the comm instead of my personal journal so that if someone wants to read it, I can add them to the comm instead of having to turn them away (or add them to my personal flist).

Whew. Sounds complicated, but it's organised and effective, I think.

[elanna9.livejournal.com]

I've always assumed that people were locking their stuff to keep RL folks who read their LJ from finding it.

I flock for a variant of this reason: on the not-so-unlikely chance that someone from my real life -- whom I would not otherwise tell about my lj -- somehow discovers it. (This is not, unfortunately, unrealistic, as I have no willpower, and therefore can't resist logging in from work and/or other highly inadvisable places and incriminating myself. :P) Anyone I've actually given the link to my journal to is someone I trust enough not to be too weirded out by what I'm up to.

I do have a public fic journal ... I created since I not only write fairly infrequently but also post all sorts of random blatherings in my actual lj. I figured that anyone who was interested in my writing but not interested in me could just friend my fic journal. Strangely, there doesn't seem to be anyone in that category (I do have at least a few lurkers in my actual journal; I'm a bit baffled as to why.) I have tried to be very careful to flock all references to my fic journal from my actual journal.

Regarding links to flocked fic, I'm in the camp that finds them very annoying. Frankly, if it's going to require me to request access to something -- especially if it's possible that access won't be granted -- I don't even want to know about it. Even with the warning that the story is locked. It's just frustrating to hear about something and want to read it and then not be able to get to it.

I do get that you're building a comprehensive list, so I see why you would want to link to these stories anyway ... this is just my opinion.

(God, I apologize, I've reread the above, and I seem to be incapable of expressing myself tonight. I hope that's somewhat coherant. I'm totally psyched that you're updating the archive -- it was one of my favorite places to troll for new fic. I'm really glad that you have plenty of people to work on the project.)

[miints.livejournal.com]

I think it's quite irritating when someone links you to a "wonderful art piece" or a "yummy fic"..and it's flocked, makes me very frustrated in many ways. I mean I don't mind that the author chose to lock it, but getting recced to it... there should be a warning

on the other hand, as I was typing this, I was thinking of locked art comms, like neb or glocky have, and well.. that does make sense, and I guess pretty much everyone is a member anyways...

:>

[snottygrrl.livejournal.com]

i've never flocked, though i've thought about it. if i did, i wouldn't want it rec'ed and i never rec stuff that is unless it is a comm that one can join.

i too would be curious to see how flocking folk felt about this.

[sesptwd.livejournal.com]

Basically the only thing I don't flock now-a-days are fic announcements and fic/art recs. Um...so...taking this poll was really pointless for me. (and you) sorry. I just couldn't resist. =D

see you soon meep

[winnett.livejournal.com]

With me I flock certain HP/Slash items on my journal because I DON'T want certain people I know to come across it. But for me, when I finally get my story written I will post it to a journal as well, unlocked, so it can be linked.

Mainly I just don't want people (ie coworkers) to find out about my slash fetish. :)

[xochiquetzl]

Generally, the only way I would rec a locked piece of art or fic is if it was ONLY available there, and the author had a community or journal where s/he locked all fanwork/all adult fanwork/whatever. I wouldn't want to listen to the complaints unless I really loved said piece of fanwork. :D