A bit more on epithets
Jan. 30th, 2006 10:01 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
emmagrant01As many people have pointed out on ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
painless_j's post on this topic, a well-placed epithet can be used to convey important information about a character. The problem occurs when people do it simply to avoid repeating characters' names or "he" and "his" over and over. The resulting text is cumbersome at best and approaching ridiculous at worst. IMO, this is one of those little things about writing that one learns along the way, just as one grows out of the Mary Sue phase, learns how to use a colon and a semi-colon properly, to show rather than tell, to resist the urge to overuse adverbs, et cetera.
As a disclaimer, I recognize that I have a lot to learn as a writer myself, and I'm not suggesting that I am a great writer who has none of these (or other) problems. I'm still hashing a lot of this out myself, and this is merely my opinion.
I thought it would be fun to use an example to illustrate the point, so here's an excerpt fromanise_anise's gorgeous Open Surrender (used without her permission, but I'm hoping she doesn't mind!):
++
He lifted his head and watched breathlessly as Draco licked his hips, his navel, snuffling against his pubic hair, breathing him in deeply. Draco shifted and settled between his thighs, lifting them each carefully off of the bed and placing them over his shoulders. Harry held his breath as Draco lowered his head, his pink tongue peeking out to lap softly at the base of his tortured cock.
"Fuck," Harry whimpered; his neck strained from holding his head up to watch.
Draco winked at him cheekily and moved down further, licking his balls over and over. He writhed as Draco mouthed his sac, moist lips dancing over the wrinkled flesh. The tongue licked lower still, right behind his balls, slicking across his perineum again and again, boldly sliding over his crevice. Draco's dexterous fingers slipped against his arse cheeks, pushing them gently apart, and Harry felt him shift even lower, hot, damp, breath brushing against his hole. He couldn't be... He wouldn't. It wasn't done.
++
Not an epithet in sight, and it's not one bit confusing who is doing what to whom. In good writing, certain words just sink out of your sight and become part of the background. Your eyes slide over repeated names and and you focus on what's happening in the scene. Notice that Anise is very good at structuring the text so that it's clear who each "he" and "his" refers to. Some writers will say they are fond of using epithets to keep all the he's from getting confusing, but my argument is that if it's confusing, then it's a writing issue, not a pronoun issue. Good writers make that work all the time, as evidenced above. Just like with many things in life, it can be helpful for developing writers (and I consider myself one as well) to read a lot of good writing with an eye toward what makes it good.
Now, consider the same passage, but with some of those names and he's replaced with common epithets:
++
The dark-haired boy lifted his head and watched breathlessly as the blond licked his hips, his navel, snuffling against his pubic hair, breathing him in deeply. The Slytherin seeker shifted and settled between the Gryffindor's thighs, lifting them each carefully off of the bed and placing them over his shoulders. He Boy-Who-Lived held his breath as his childhood nemesis lowered his head, his pink tongue peeking out to lap softly at the base of his tortured cock.
"Fuck," Harry whimpered; his neck strained from holding his head up to watch.
Draco winked at him cheekily and moved down further, licking his balls over and over. The green-eyed boy writhed as the slighter boy mouthed his sac, moist lips dancing over the wrinkled flesh. The tongue licked lower still, right behind his balls, slicking across his perineum again and again, boldly sliding over his crevice. The blond seeker's dexterous fingers slipped against the raven-haired boy's arse cheeks, pushing them gently apart, and Harry felt him shift even lower, hot, damp, breath brushing against his hole. He couldn't be... He wouldn't. It wasn't done.
++
*shudders* My apologies for making you read that.
But see how the epithets ruin the flow of the narrative? Your mind stops to process each one, because in good writing, every word is important, so you can't just pass over this sort of description. But the information in "the blond seeker" is not important. We already know this is a fic about Harry and Draco, so we don't need to be reminded about what they look like or do for fun right now. It isn't telling us anything we need to know in this situation, so it's actually distracting us from what's important in the scene. Even if this were a story with original characters whom we don't know well, this would still not be the best way to convey such information.
And that's my two cents. Or maybe a nickel, heh. I'm so tempted to challenge people to write the worst possible epithet-filled drabbles and post them here, just for fun. :-P
ETA: *spews coffee* Y'all crack me up! :-D
Related links, or It isn't just me -- other people who know a lot about writing share my opinion:
Banishing the Wild Epithet (great essay!)
Turkey City Lexicon (scroll down to "Burly Detective Syndrome")
painless_j's post on this topic, a well-placed epithet can be used to convey important information about a character. The problem occurs when people do it simply to avoid repeating characters' names or "he" and "his" over and over. The resulting text is cumbersome at best and approaching ridiculous at worst. IMO, this is one of those little things about writing that one learns along the way, just as one grows out of the Mary Sue phase, learns how to use a colon and a semi-colon properly, to show rather than tell, to resist the urge to overuse adverbs, et cetera. As a disclaimer, I recognize that I have a lot to learn as a writer myself, and I'm not suggesting that I am a great writer who has none of these (or other) problems. I'm still hashing a lot of this out myself, and this is merely my opinion.
I thought it would be fun to use an example to illustrate the point, so here's an excerpt from
anise_anise's gorgeous Open Surrender (used without her permission, but I'm hoping she doesn't mind!):++
He lifted his head and watched breathlessly as Draco licked his hips, his navel, snuffling against his pubic hair, breathing him in deeply. Draco shifted and settled between his thighs, lifting them each carefully off of the bed and placing them over his shoulders. Harry held his breath as Draco lowered his head, his pink tongue peeking out to lap softly at the base of his tortured cock.
"Fuck," Harry whimpered; his neck strained from holding his head up to watch.
Draco winked at him cheekily and moved down further, licking his balls over and over. He writhed as Draco mouthed his sac, moist lips dancing over the wrinkled flesh. The tongue licked lower still, right behind his balls, slicking across his perineum again and again, boldly sliding over his crevice. Draco's dexterous fingers slipped against his arse cheeks, pushing them gently apart, and Harry felt him shift even lower, hot, damp, breath brushing against his hole. He couldn't be... He wouldn't. It wasn't done.
++
Not an epithet in sight, and it's not one bit confusing who is doing what to whom. In good writing, certain words just sink out of your sight and become part of the background. Your eyes slide over repeated names and and you focus on what's happening in the scene. Notice that Anise is very good at structuring the text so that it's clear who each "he" and "his" refers to. Some writers will say they are fond of using epithets to keep all the he's from getting confusing, but my argument is that if it's confusing, then it's a writing issue, not a pronoun issue. Good writers make that work all the time, as evidenced above. Just like with many things in life, it can be helpful for developing writers (and I consider myself one as well) to read a lot of good writing with an eye toward what makes it good.
Now, consider the same passage, but with some of those names and he's replaced with common epithets:
++
The dark-haired boy lifted his head and watched breathlessly as the blond licked his hips, his navel, snuffling against his pubic hair, breathing him in deeply. The Slytherin seeker shifted and settled between the Gryffindor's thighs, lifting them each carefully off of the bed and placing them over his shoulders. He Boy-Who-Lived held his breath as his childhood nemesis lowered his head, his pink tongue peeking out to lap softly at the base of his tortured cock.
"Fuck," Harry whimpered; his neck strained from holding his head up to watch.
Draco winked at him cheekily and moved down further, licking his balls over and over. The green-eyed boy writhed as the slighter boy mouthed his sac, moist lips dancing over the wrinkled flesh. The tongue licked lower still, right behind his balls, slicking across his perineum again and again, boldly sliding over his crevice. The blond seeker's dexterous fingers slipped against the raven-haired boy's arse cheeks, pushing them gently apart, and Harry felt him shift even lower, hot, damp, breath brushing against his hole. He couldn't be... He wouldn't. It wasn't done.
++
*shudders* My apologies for making you read that.
But see how the epithets ruin the flow of the narrative? Your mind stops to process each one, because in good writing, every word is important, so you can't just pass over this sort of description. But the information in "the blond seeker" is not important. We already know this is a fic about Harry and Draco, so we don't need to be reminded about what they look like or do for fun right now. It isn't telling us anything we need to know in this situation, so it's actually distracting us from what's important in the scene. Even if this were a story with original characters whom we don't know well, this would still not be the best way to convey such information.
And that's my two cents. Or maybe a nickel, heh. I'm so tempted to challenge people to write the worst possible epithet-filled drabbles and post them here, just for fun. :-P
ETA: *spews coffee* Y'all crack me up! :-D
Related links, or It isn't just me -- other people who know a lot about writing share my opinion:
Banishing the Wild Epithet (great essay!)
Turkey City Lexicon (scroll down to "Burly Detective Syndrome")
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2006-01-30 04:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-30 04:46 pm (UTC)I'm sorry, what was the point again?
no subject
Date: 2006-01-30 04:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-30 05:15 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-30 05:29 pm (UTC)BWAHAHAHA!
...
The soaking wet Gryffindor grinned predatorily as he ran his soft and gentle fingertips softly and gently over the blonde Slytherin's quivering rock hard six-pack. (a/n: did you see what i did there, the juxistopistion of the soft and gentle and the rock hard?) The boy with raven tresses then moved his worshipping hands lower and lower, until with slow and meaningful motions undid the silver eyed boy's pants and unleashed the Slytherin's sweet serpent of sex. (a/n: oh yeah, alliteration!)
"FUCK ME NOW!" the second best of the best seekers ever cried out into the black night, until the very best of the seekers swallowed the words with his own mouth.
The emerald eyed Hogwarts student kissed his rich and affluent lover passionately as he slowly slickly entered the blonde's chamber of man love. The Boy Who Lived thust passionately with all the love he felt for his Slytherin partner until both could no longer stand the friction building in they're groins, and they both came suddenly, gazing into each other's eyes, emerald colliding with silver in a beautiful fireworks explosion of jewelry-tones.
"I love you so much," the brunette said to the blonde love of his life.
I really don't even know if that makes sense.
Yes, I argued they have a place, but here: how's this for bad?
Date: 2006-01-30 05:34 pm (UTC)It worked. He whimpered. And the green-eyed burn-scarred red-haired second-born strong-armed warm-bedded dragon keeper smiled.
no subject
Date: 2006-01-30 05:34 pm (UTC)Oh yeah, and I agree with you and
no subject
Date: 2006-01-30 05:37 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-30 05:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-30 05:44 pm (UTC)Re: Yes, I argued they have a place, but here: how's this for bad?
Date: 2006-01-30 05:45 pm (UTC)Tarsal appendage... *snicker*
no subject
Date: 2006-01-30 05:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-30 05:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-30 05:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-30 05:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-30 05:58 pm (UTC)yeah, i hope you weren't trying to make a point with that snippet, b-c i couldn't get past all the hot sex lovin'...
i may have to re-read that when i've calmed down.
:wink:
no subject
Date: 2006-01-30 06:05 pm (UTC)Ignore me, I'm feeling cranky and off-colour today and I didn't intend to stir up anything. I was just stating my feelings.
Re: Yes, I argued they have a place, but here: how's this for bad?
Date: 2006-01-30 06:09 pm (UTC)Brilliant!
no subject
Date: 2006-01-30 06:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-30 06:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-01-30 06:12 pm (UTC)On the other hand, I personally thank these kind of posts. I write for a living and I write as a hobby. It is vital for me to know what I'm doing wrong. I find it extremely helpful to have pinpointed common mistakes because the thing is we've been taught that way and it's part of our mental process which doesn't allow us to see what we are doing until someone else tell us, hey wake up and look at this. It's the same reason why we need beta readers. We can read the same mistake a thousand time and will never pick up on it because our mind reads it as being okay.
Being a Spanish speaker makes it even worse for me because one of the main differences between a romance language and a saxon one is the use of poetic imaginary and adverbs and adjectives in each language. As is completely grammar and sentence structure weren't enough. And now I've rambled for so long.
Bottom line, I appreciate everything that help me be a better writer.
no subject
Date: 2006-01-30 06:20 pm (UTC)As a writer who has learned quite a lot in the last few years, I know how hard it can be to hear criticism of something you do, whether it's directed at you or not. It's difficult not to just dismiss the critique as someone else's uninformed opinion. But every now and then, someone would offer a very reasonable argument about why something ought to be done or not done, and those helped me very much. I'm still learning, of course, but I like to think I have some advice to offer as well, learned the hard way from the many mistakes I've made in the past. :-)
no subject
Date: 2006-01-30 06:26 pm (UTC)No, that's a lie. But I bet it IS out there somewhere.
no subject
Date: 2006-01-30 06:28 pm (UTC)I aim to please, I do. ;D
no subject
Date: 2006-01-30 06:30 pm (UTC)Just out of curiosity: you show two extremes: no epithets whatsoever and far too many epithets - but isn't there a sort of 'road in between'? I mean, aren't there ways in which epithets can be used? Like, when it has a specific function? For example: 'Harry looked at his boyfriend and smiled'? This could be used to specify how Harry looks at Draco. Or are epithets simply not Done, period? :D