What kind of slash do you like?

[emmagrant01]

I've been reading a lot of fan fic lately, and I've spent a lot of time thinking about what it is I really like in a good slash fic. After a few conversations with other slashers, I'm curious to know what other people think. Below I describe what I like and don't like in a fic, and I'm hoping this starts a conversation about what people generally like to see and why.

[Disclaimer: These are my opinions, and none of these comments are directed at any particular author or fic. If you disagree with me, great! But don't take anything here personally!]



So first of all, I'm not an OTPer. In fact, I'm the opposite -- I like pretty much Any Possible Pairing. (Probably not a surprise, coming from me!) I appreciate a good Qui/Obi story, no doubt about it, but what I *don't* like are mushy, fluffy, overly romantic fics in which the boys are destined for each other and declare their undying love before having glorious sex for the first time. I'm even more likely to hit the delete key if Obi has been "saving himself" for Qui, or if there's any whiff of a soul bond in the air. Or if Obi decides at the age of 17 that he is ready for a long-term commitment with his master, and Qui accepts this without question. Or if either of them says "I love you" only moments after they've recognized their mutual attraction. Unrequited love for a period of years is another turn-off, especially the old "Obi has never gotten over his padawan crush and is in love with Qui despite never having his feelings returned and is perfectly content to be lonely and celibate if he can't have his master" fic. Just doesn't do anything for me.

Why do I feel this way? Well, I've never liked "chick flicks" or romance novels. I much prefer conflict, characters dealing with inappropriate attraction for each other, and characters giving in to lust (because of stress, mistaken identity, or under the influence of chemicals) and then dealing with the consequences afterwards. I like angst. I like characters misunderstanding each other and hurting each other, and then working through their problems. I like insecurity, and people being forced to deal with their fears. I like people discovering their attraction for each other as a surprise, and resisting a relationship at first. I like stories that deal with the consequences of sex. Hot sex scenes are great, of course, but what does it mean for the characters? How does it affect them, positively and negatively? I like to see mediocre, merely comfortable sex occasionally, because that's realistic in a relationship. I like awkward sex, especially the first time.

I like Qui/Obi fics that deal realistically with the power differential between the characters, not to mention the age difference. I admire authors who either deal with it, or set the fic in a universe in which master-padawan sexual relationships are socially acceptable, and make me believe that universe makes sense.

I admire authors whose stories seem perfectly aligned with canon, but I love alternate universes as well. I love happy endings after a really angsty fic, but admire an author who has the balls not to give me a happy ending when it makes the story work. I like genuinely original plots and scenarios to get two characters together, or in which to explore an established relationship. I like to see new interpretations of characters that I thought I knew well. I like darkness and strife.

I suppose that fan fic is not an means of escape for me, so perhaps that explains my preference for realism and my rejection of what I see as pure romantic fluff. I like reading stories that make me think, that affect me physically, and that draw me in and make me care about the characters.

So, what about you?

Comments

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

Part of what I like about fanfic is the ability to explore a universe more fully than I did just with movies or profic.

I think it's also the case that profic -- especially in SF -- tends to be written by men for men. And so, they don't write about the things women are interested in, like the characters and their lives, their relationships, how events really affect them, how they deal with pain, and so forth. I mean, how many space battles can you read about before you nod off and start dreaming about the two guys who were shooting at each other fucking each other instead?

What interests me about the two of them is their differences.

I can totally understand that! It's what draws me to Harry/Draco, and to Obi/Bail too, for that matter. It can be done well with Qui/Obi, but that doesn't seem to be the typical route for a fan fic plot, unfortunately.

[helens78]

I think it's also the case that profic -- especially in SF -- tends to be written by men for men.

Hmm -- interesting concept! I have only about four or five *really* favorite authors in SF, one of whom is female, the rest of whom are male. (Octavia Butler/Peter David/Neil Gaiman/Terry Goodkind.) I don't really see any of them as writing for a "male" audience -- when it comes to the three men, I can't see them writing for a gendered audience at all, and I can say that with definite certainty in the case of Terry Goodkind. But all authors, I think, write to please themselves first and foremost, and therefore, in some sense, all female authors are writing for a female audience and all male authors are writing for a male audience.

Hm.

Actually, this has become more and more interesting to me as Kal and I are talking about where we can submit our turning-into-a-novel thing once it's done; if a gay publisher is marketing to men, can something written by women, which has gotten overwhelmingly positive reactions by women, succeed with its target audience? Who do we market this sort of book to?

Where was I...?


And so, they don't write about the things women are interested in, like the characters and their lives, their relationships, how events really affect them, how they deal with pain, and so forth. I mean, how many space battles can you read about before you nod off and start dreaming about the two guys who were shooting at each other fucking each other instead?

Oh, man, tell me about it. This reminds me of the class I'm taking (still!) on the American Revolution; I'm fascinated by the economy, the day-to-day lives of Americans, the political struggles, and so on, but when I hit the chapter where battle after battle is described in excruciating detail, my brain shut down and refused to look at my homework. :/ (However, I am not mentally slashing George Washington and Nathaniel Greene.)

I can totally understand that! It's what draws me to Harry/Draco, and to Obi/Bail too, for that matter. It can be done well with Qui/Obi, but that doesn't seem to be the typical route for a fan fic plot, unfortunately.

You know, I've actually come to the conclusion that part of what's making TPM lose its appeal for me is that everyone in TPM seems to have A Role To Play. Qui is the Master, Obi is the Apprentice (at least at this point in the timeline), Bail is the Young Senator/Prince... everyone has such a fixed position that it's hard to ask them to relate to each other without those fixed roles getting in the way. When writing LotRPS, you can easily have characters go in and out of roles (King/Steward), but it's something to toy with, to play with, rather than the identity-defining plotpoint it tends to be in TPM. You very rarely see Obi and Qui interact just as Obi and Qui. Actually, this is what was so stunning about that thing Emu wrote in February -- gah, what was it called? -- the fact that they were relating to each other as people rather than as Master and Apprentice, or even as Jedi. You don't see that very often, and although in some ways that's good -- the power misbalance is part of what makes TPM compelling -- in other ways it can be frustrating. There comes a point where I feel like we've done all that can be done with exploring the Master/Apprentice dynamic. (Of course, I say this, and I'm busily writing several different Master/Slave D/s arcs, so maybe not...)

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

I am, as usual, generalizing! ;^) But I do think that the stereotypical SF reader is a geeky guy, and that's who the dim-witted publishers force their writers to write for. Just as the publishers of bodice-ripper romances force their writers to stick to a formula because they believe that's what their stereotypical (lonely, bored, middle-aged woman) reader wants.

Re: publishing a "slash" novel. There was a discussion about this on MA last spring, wasn't there? Some folks had some negative experience with publishers along those lines. I *sincerely* hope you two give that a serious go! That would be soooo awesome!

However, I am not mentally slashing George Washington and Nathaniel Greene.

What do you wanna bet that somebody has, though? *grin*

There comes a point where I feel like we've done all that can be done with exploring the Master/Apprentice dynamic.

I know what you mean, but I'm not ready to throw in the towel on the pairing. I think that there are plenty of great stories out there, and people just need the incentive to write them. THe interesting thing about TPM is that there are tremendous possibilities, in and out of canon. In some fandoms, people just don't stray from fandom, but in TPM, anything goes. Like QAJ, for example! *wink*

And yeah, I've got a big Q/O thing on the backburner too...

[helens78]

Just as the publishers of bodice-ripper romances force their writers to stick to a formula because they believe that's what their stereotypical (lonely, bored, middle-aged woman) reader wants.

You know, I used to defend bodice-rippers, having read a good number of good ones. Recently, though, I went back to one of the ones I remembered as being quite good, and could not for the life of me get through it. It's called "A Knight In Shining Armor," and seventy-five pages in, the lead female character is sobbing at the foot of a big white marble statue, because her crappy boyfriend and his crappy daughter just took off with her purse, leaving her stranded in a church in rural England.

OK, that part makes sense, right? Hell, I'd cry.

But then she starts going Send me a knight in shining armor, and I nearly threw my book out the car window. Bleah.

Am I just pickier after reading so much slash? Because I've read a lot of fanfiction that gives more interesting relationship dynamics than those, and I had no patience for someone waiting for someone to come rescue her. Just none whatever.

Re: publishing a "slash" novel. There was a discussion about this on MA last spring, wasn't there? Some folks had some negative experience with publishers along those lines. I *sincerely* hope you two give that a serious go! That would be soooo awesome!

The going is definitely going to happen. Kal and I are going to prod at each other to work on original fic, and as for the big slash novel -- that's definitely going to happen, just a matter of when. (She's going to come visit in a month or two if all goes well, so that might be a good time to talk editing if we haven't gotten that far by then... hm.)

I know what you mean, but I'm not ready to throw in the towel on the pairing. I think that there are plenty of great stories out there, and people just need the incentive to write them. The interesting thing about TPM is that there are tremendous possibilities, in and out of canon. In some fandoms, people just don't stray from fandom, but in TPM, anything goes. Like QAJ, for example! *wink*

True, true! I'm really hoping that once QAJ gets going in full swing again, I'll be less restless about TPM fandom.