(no subject)

[emmagrant01]

Most of you will probably find this really offensive, on many different levels.  Some of you will probably condone it, though I have no idea why.  Still, I hope everyone finds this story a bit disturbing: Interrogators at Guantanamo Use Sexual Tactics.

Comments

[justsonya.livejournal.com]

That's repulsive.

[aidenfire]

Yeah. That's frightening. I don't understand this world.

[shezan.livejournal.com]

Textbook technique to break Moslem prisoners. I'm not saying it's right or wrong; I'm saying it's been theorised by the nice police & anti-terrorism forces of "friendly" countries like Egypt, Jordan, etc. to make prisoners divulge plans of terrorist attacks.

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

Right, and I'm getting a little tired of hearing my government make huge claims about how we're doing so much good by bringing democracy to the world, while we're using these sorts of tactics to do it. As a woman, I am incensed that someone would do this. It sets back the cause of women in the very countries we are trying to "liberate" by reinforcing negative stereotypes of women in the worst possible way.

To say that I'm disgusted by it is an understatement.

[shezan.livejournal.com]

Er... as a woman, I'm disgusted by the stereotypes these men have in the first place. There's nothing to reinforce; it's a given. You cannot set back the cause of women in Saudi Arabia further than it is already - and I speak as someone who's travelled in the Gulf pretty extensively.

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

I know a few men from the reion who would take great offense at that statement, but I think you're right that for a particular segment of the population, there are stereotypes about the way women would behave given a certain amount of freedom.

My point is this: why give them more reason to believe it's true? Why not show that women can be just as capable and professional as men, without their sexuality being an issue? Why shoud a woman have to use her body or sexualize herself to do her job? That's one of the classic misogynistic arguments, that having women in a traditionally male workplace would be disruptive because women can't control their sexuality. That is offensive to me, and this is just another example.

I'm not defending the guys in Guantanamo - most of them are there for a reason. What I object to is the fact that "we" are sinking to that level. It only does harm to women's rights, in the end.

[pornography.livejournal.com]

That's disgusting. Ugh.

[ms-mindfunk.livejournal.com]

Disgusting, but not surprising. The abuses being perpetrated against terrorist suspects - both those held with and without evidence - makes it really hard to tell who are supposed to be the good guys and who are supposed to be the bad guys. Well, at least to anyone in the Western world with a sense of decency. In the Muslim world, it just reinforces the idea that we're evil incarnate.

Yeah, *that's* really gonna help our cause.

[vala-amaris.livejournal.com]

First, women in a military setting should not be allowed or asked to dress up in thongs and use sexuality as a weapon or tool. That's setting back OUR cause for equality and a work environment free of sexual harassment.

Second, I think these tactics are cruel and unusual punishment. They shouldn't be allowed to do anything to these prisoners that wouldn't be allowed in any U.S. jail setting. These people need lawyers & fair trials. If even one innocent person is sitting over there without fair representation, then America is a friggin hypocrite.

Third, I don't think military women should be barred nor encouraged to work with the prisoners. If they would have been there anyway and are acting as they normally would, then that's fine by me. They're in our military camp and it should be run the way it normally is. However, I don't think an entire unit of women is neccesary to subdue unruly prisoners. They were assembled all at once specifically to scare the prisoner.

[142978.livejournal.com]

...My faith in humanity dies a little bit every time I read something like this.

[helens78]

Disclaiming: Mental and physical torture in all forms is bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, no matter who's doing it.

But I find it utterly fascinating that female sexuality is so scary to these guys that it can be used as a weapon.

[jedirita.livejournal.com]

I think that's a bit simplistic. What if it was a female prisoner, and a male interrogater was rubbing his crotch on her? Or sticking his hand in his pants and bringing out a whitish substance and rubbing it in her face?

Or what if the guys being treated this way were western? Do you think that western men would enjoy it? Even a western man would know that he is a prisoner who has no choice in the matter.

No matter the gender, no matter the culture, this is sexual violation. It's taking one of the most intimate of human interactions and turing it into a weapon. People have taboos about sexuality precisely because it is such a powerful impulse.

[cormallen.livejournal.com]

It was very disturbing to read an article that seemed to describe a script to a run of the mill prison bondage porno - while knowing that it was not talking about a porno flick.

[daiseechain.livejournal.com]

Three things strike me about this article.

1. This is appalling behaviour. There is no excuse whatsoever for behaving this way, no matter how the military (not just the USA's, but any country's) try to justify it. In the long run, it will only lead to retaliation, and prolonging of hostilities, and in the short term it will most definitely emotionally scar detainees who have yet to be determined were actually involved. Many have already been released as they were realised to be innocent. How many innocent people are currently being tortured in these facilities? It's also counterproductive. I can't speak for anyone else, but I know that when I'm being bullied I go out of my way *not* to cooperate. Apparently no one has explained to the US military yet about flies, honey, and vinegar.

2. While I do not condone these tactics, and find them reprehensible, I have to ask if we would be reading about them at all, if the torture had been carried out by men. Torture happens often during war and interrogations which are carried out without outside independant supervision. I'm beginning to question whether the real shock that was felt in the US when the original photos of abuse in Abu Ghraib were revealed, wasn't that the suspects were being tortured, but that some of the torturers were women, and American women at that. There seems to me to be a level of hypocracy emerging here. Torture is unacceptable, no matter who carries it out.

3. "The price of democracy is eternal vigilance."

[oconel]

That's one of the problems about Guantánamo's prisoners, they've no rights whatsoever. That easily leads to guards using this kinds of technics or torture if they feel like they need it.

And in the end, the US doesn't look like a democratic country, and gets more enemies.