How many people read this stuff, anyway?
Jan. 5th, 2005 12:02 pmI've often wondered how many people read my fic. I assume there's a proportional relationship between the general readership and the number of comments left for fics posted on LJ, but what's the proportion? Without a way of measuring the number of "hits" on an LJ post, it's hard to tell.
In addition to LJ and my web page, I also post selected fics on Skyehawke, which does measure hits, so I thought I'd look there for a point of reference. Now, I don't get a lot of reviews on Skyehawke, and I thought perhaps it was just me. I calculated the proportion of reviews left to the number of hits (on fics that were actually reviewed; I didn't count the ones that weren't reviewed by anyone), and found that the review rate was a fairly dismal 0.5%! Yes, less than 1% of people who read my fics on Skyehawke leave a review! I'm sure a certain percentage start to read and then get bored, but I'd like to think that a fairly large number of those who read actually finish.
I wondered if it was just me, so I looked at the Skyehawke pages of a few other HP writers (selected at random from the author directory from the names I was familiar with). Here's what I found:
geoviki, whose fic A Thousand Beautiful Things seems to be one of the most widely read on Skyehawke, has a review rate of 0.4%.
dorrie6 has a review rate of 0.8%.
abbycadabra has a review rate of 0.5%.
amanuensis1 has a review rate of 0.6%.
ivyblossom has a review rate of 0.6%.
At this point, I had to stop looking up authors, because I'm doing this on my lunch break and it's taking up lots of time. But all of those numbers are pretty consistent, at around 0.6%. I was also surprised at the sheer number of fics on these authors' pages with no reviews left, yet with lots of hits. (I didn't count those in the review rate, btw.) Many of these authors post on LJ, on their own pages, and in multiple archives, so maybe their reader base tends to review elsewhere. At any rate, I feel a little better, as I seem to be close to the (non-statistically sound) average.
But my question is this: Is this review rate of 0.6% fairly representative of Skyehawke, and is it representative of review rates in general? So if there are 30 comments left on an LJ story, would it make sense for me to use that rate -- or, to make the arithmetic easier, round it to 1% -- to get an estimate of 3000 as the number of people who actually read my fic? That seems really high, but it's possible that readers really are that uninclined to review.
Thoughts? Other review rates to add to the list?
Disclaimer: I know that what I've done here is very, very far from being statistically sound, and I have no interest in designing an experiment that would be. Sorry! :-P
Damn slow LJ!!!
In addition to LJ and my web page, I also post selected fics on Skyehawke, which does measure hits, so I thought I'd look there for a point of reference. Now, I don't get a lot of reviews on Skyehawke, and I thought perhaps it was just me. I calculated the proportion of reviews left to the number of hits (on fics that were actually reviewed; I didn't count the ones that weren't reviewed by anyone), and found that the review rate was a fairly dismal 0.5%! Yes, less than 1% of people who read my fics on Skyehawke leave a review! I'm sure a certain percentage start to read and then get bored, but I'd like to think that a fairly large number of those who read actually finish.
I wondered if it was just me, so I looked at the Skyehawke pages of a few other HP writers (selected at random from the author directory from the names I was familiar with). Here's what I found:
At this point, I had to stop looking up authors, because I'm doing this on my lunch break and it's taking up lots of time. But all of those numbers are pretty consistent, at around 0.6%. I was also surprised at the sheer number of fics on these authors' pages with no reviews left, yet with lots of hits. (I didn't count those in the review rate, btw.) Many of these authors post on LJ, on their own pages, and in multiple archives, so maybe their reader base tends to review elsewhere. At any rate, I feel a little better, as I seem to be close to the (non-statistically sound) average.
But my question is this: Is this review rate of 0.6% fairly representative of Skyehawke, and is it representative of review rates in general? So if there are 30 comments left on an LJ story, would it make sense for me to use that rate -- or, to make the arithmetic easier, round it to 1% -- to get an estimate of 3000 as the number of people who actually read my fic? That seems really high, but it's possible that readers really are that uninclined to review.
Thoughts? Other review rates to add to the list?
Disclaimer: I know that what I've done here is very, very far from being statistically sound, and I have no interest in designing an experiment that would be. Sorry! :-P
Damn slow LJ!!!
no subject
Date: 2005-01-05 06:26 pm (UTC)Until recently I didn't realize that I could post a review on skyehawke. I though I had to have an account. I use to just lurk on LJ's to see when people updated fics that I followed. I just recently got in this whole LJ thing and started using it as a commication tool rather than a glorified mailing list. So yes, I do read you wonderful fics!!
LJ is being rather slow.
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Date: 2005-01-05 06:30 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-01-05 06:28 pm (UTC)That's probably no help at all, and it's completely my opinion, but I thought I'd toss it out.
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Date: 2005-01-05 06:33 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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From:As A Prolific Reader
Date: 2005-01-05 06:30 pm (UTC)I prefer reading from lj and mailing lists precisely because those allow me an "easy" out as far as commenting. I do not have to pulkl up an address (often I find them out of date) to let someone know what I think. There are also times when I truly do mean to let someone know that I enjoyed their story, but get caught up in another one and forget to go back.
- Side Note: I sometimes feel awkward sending people "good job" comments because I feel as though I should be more specific or even more analytical about it all. As a non-writer in these realms, I often feel as though I would be over-stepping the boundaries.
Re: As A Prolific Reader
Date: 2005-01-05 06:35 pm (UTC)I suspect the rate is a little higher on LJ than elsewhere because of ease of commenting, but I wonder if it's true?
Do you really feel that leaving a "great fic!" comment would insult a writer? I'd be pleased as punch, personally! :-P
Re: As A Prolific Reader
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From:no subject
Date: 2005-01-05 06:37 pm (UTC)I try to send feedback on every story I enjoy, though I almost hate doing that, because what usually comes out is, 'good job!'. But, as Emila-Wan once said (I think it was her), some feedback is better than no feedback. But when I've got a backlog of stories to read against a backlog of stories to write, guess which is going to be sacrificed?
We're all feedback whores, the lot of us, it's kinda like asking a guy if he masturbates. We may not acknowledge it openly, but it surely feels good when we get it!
no subject
Date: 2005-01-06 08:31 pm (UTC)And yes, reading feedback is a bit like mental masturbation, huh? ;-)
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Date: 2005-01-05 06:55 pm (UTC)At the same time, I don't know that 3000 is that far off the mark for certain works. Recently a story was pulled from fanfiction.net, so the author created a Yahoo group to keep in touch with readers and let them know where she'd be reposting the story. The author is not famous in the fandom and the story is not one of the classic titles we see mentioned repeatedly on rec list after rec list. However, within 24 hours there were over 1000 members in her group. In a month there were over 2300 members. Now, maybe every single person who ever read her fic has joined the group, but that's unlikely. I'd think the percentage of group members to readers is probably fairly high, at least 60%, but I doubt it's near 100%. That means that this one fic has a probable reader base of 3000 or more, and I'd bet that there are at least a handful of other fics by "no name" authors that also have several thousand readers. With the better known authors and stories, it's probably more.
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Date: 2005-01-06 01:45 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2005-01-05 06:57 pm (UTC)I wouldn't take it personally if you don't get a lot of feedback. I also don't know if you can extrapolate 30 comments to 3000 readers...but it could be 3000 visitors, easy.
no subject
Date: 2005-01-06 08:40 pm (UTC)I don't take lack of feedback personally, but I have to say I love getting it and always wish people would tell me what they thought! It's hard not to interpret lack of feedback as "no one is reading this".
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Date: 2005-01-05 07:03 pm (UTC)I suck at reviewing - my reviews are usually just of the SQUEEEE!!!! variety. I mean, I can offer good concrit for betaing, but most people don't really want that when they present something as finished, so I never know what to say other than "yay, you". Which is banal, obviously, so I don't review often. Yes, I suck.
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Date: 2005-01-06 08:42 pm (UTC)*grins* that certainly semms to be the consensus here! And yeah, the star rating system is nice, though it would be cool to know how many people did that, too. I know, I'm so demanding! :-P
On another topic, are you still thinking of coming to Austin next weekend? If so, drop me an email (emmagrant01 at gmail dot com). :-D
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Date: 2005-01-05 07:12 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-01-06 06:12 am (UTC)You are stealing my comments!!!! Give them back!!!!
If you do not take my threat seriously, I will write nothing but Dudley/Filch until you do. You have been warned!
(no subject)
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Date: 2005-01-05 07:13 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-01-06 09:23 pm (UTC)LJ is definitely a more tightly-knit community than are most mailing lists, though, so I think you're right that people are more inclined to review in this context.
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Date: 2005-01-05 07:19 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-01-06 09:24 pm (UTC)And I agree with your point about dialogue between readers and writers!
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Date: 2005-01-05 07:26 pm (UTC)Ha! Right.
Are you insane? Dude, your universe, aside from the slash, is the main draw and what I sell your fic to others on. And even the theorists I talk to online outside of the fic part of fandom, are so in love with your fic. And others that you mentioned.
I'm not sure what to tell you, it's hard to tell unless you have your own server where you can see the stats of what the traffic is like.
As for the last two on your list, I know that amanuensis1 has some great stuff that is followed pretty closely and as for Ivy, even though she's not in fandom as she was a few years ago, there was a great outcry for her stuff to come back when the domain her stuff was on originally went dead.
but to the leaving of reviews, I find most people are lurking and don't feel up to par to leave a review that isn't monosyllable in nature. To leave something that is worthy of what they just read, means in a way that they have to de-construct the world you've just assembled for them and some people may not want to do that, and instead just re-read it or, rec it to others as much as they can.
Does that make any sense?
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Date: 2005-01-06 09:27 pm (UTC)I know what you mean about leaving little one-line reviews. But I can tell you that most writers really do appreciate even that sort of feedback! Otherwise, you don't really know that people are reading your fic!
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From:no subject
Date: 2005-01-05 07:50 pm (UTC)On LJ I probably comment less (for fic and general posts)because it's 'public', sometimes it seems silly to say what lots of others have already said, or to add a comment that doesn't seem very coherent or important.
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Date: 2005-01-06 09:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-01-05 08:08 pm (UTC)Pimping my own work, heh, one of my fics at FF.net has 279 reviews for 5 chapters, and the same one at Skyehawke only has 4 reviews with only 295 hits, though it hasn't been up there near as long. On livejournal (
Oh, and you probably have to keep in mind that many of the hits and reviews are from the same people, so if you wanted to be realistic, you'd have to like, divide everything by the number of chapters and stuff like that... ^^;;
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Date: 2005-01-06 09:31 pm (UTC)Good point about multiple hits for multi-chaptered fics. Damn, that makes my hit number for LMH that much lower!
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Date: 2005-01-05 08:12 pm (UTC)I'd watch the hit rates on the later chapters, if someone didn't like the fic, that someone would have stopped reading after a couple of chapters, wouldn't she?
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Date: 2005-01-05 08:21 pm (UTC)And your icon is ADORABLE.
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Date: 2005-01-05 08:22 pm (UTC)I think ficlets are inclined to get more reviews than WIP on astronomytower/schnoogle/thedarkarts. I have a ficlet that's had around 250 hits and 51 reviews. I have a friend who has WIP that's been going around for over a year. She has over 1000 hits to every chapter, and has a Y!group with over 600 people in it that is focused around the fic. She's lucky to get seven or eight reviews per chapter. That's the phenomenon I'd like to explore.
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Date: 2005-01-06 09:35 pm (UTC)And yes, the ficlet vs. novel-length issue... What's up with that?
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Date: 2005-01-05 08:30 pm (UTC)I think that sadly your calculations are relatvely accurate and that feedback cannot be used an any indication of how many people are reading a story.
Feedback seems to be sporadic and there seems to be no rhyme or reason to why something gets a lot while other stories get very little or none. Not sure if it's because my fandom is not very heavily into LJ, but I've gotten even less feedback when I've posted on LJ than on list.
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Date: 2005-01-06 09:37 pm (UTC)The MA folks tend not to be so active on LJ, it seems. Either that or people will send their feedback to the list or directly to the author instead of leaving it on LJ.
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Date: 2005-01-05 08:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-01-06 09:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-01-05 09:06 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-01-06 09:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-01-05 11:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-01-06 09:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-01-06 01:05 am (UTC)That being said, I tend not to review. I'm not really sure what to say. Is a "I really enjoyed reading this" sufficient, or is something more wanted? Also, I want it to look like I actually put effort into the review, instead of a quick one line, but I don't really know what to say after "I really enjoyed this fic, and really like your writing style" or whatever.
I have found I comment more in LJ, than any other posting...place. I think, partly, because I feel like I know the writer better, as it's not just the fic that's posted, usually, but also RL events. The fact that I'm able to see a bit of their personality gives me an idea of if I have con-crit how it will be taken.
Being a non-writer, I'm not sure how con-crit would be taken - it's not like I can write, and if I did, I'm not sure I'd have the guts to post it - you (being the authors) are a lot braver than I am, so who am I to critise their work? For somethings, I think it's personal taste, as well. What I think is OOC, may not be to the author.
I think part of it is that I don't want my comment to be taken personally, and I don't want to offend anyone. Just because I don't like it, or some aspects of it, doesn't mean other people won't, and it doesn't mean I think the author is a terrible writer, just because I don't like the fic. For me, I'm not sure what they author considers a flame, and what they don't. Is it the basic objection to the fic, just because of the pairing, because it contains, OOC, is AU, etc, or would some authors consider "I find that, for me, that the plot is a bit disjointed, and/or *insert character here* is a bit AU" a flame? Again, it comes down to personal taste, I suppose, and ties in a bit in feeling like I know the author or not.
I think I've rambled enough. Does any of this make sense?
Lauren
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Date: 2005-01-06 06:06 am (UTC)As far as con-crit, I must admit I do want to know a bit of history of the person offering it. I've been thrilled at serious concrit from writers I already admire, but I would be a bit more unsettled if it comes from a complete stranger. I want to know how the reviewer approaches the issue - their street cred, as it were. I suppose it's the difference between having a medical doctor tell you there's something wrong with your child and having someone in the shopping mall do the same thing.
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Date: 2005-01-06 01:31 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-01-06 09:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-01-06 01:34 am (UTC)Last year, I did a comparison of about five of my fics. They all generated a lot more comments on my lj than on any of the major archives out there (Skyehawke, ISF, RS). It think it was something like for every ten comments on lj I only received one comment on an archive.
For some reason, people find it easier to review on lj. Perhaps it's the intimacy (you usually know people a bit more than just the stories you read from them), or perhaps it's just because the comment feature on lj is easy to use. (then again, most review options on archives aren't that difficult either).
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Date: 2005-01-06 02:25 pm (UTC)I think that's part of it, but I think also the fact that the author replies to the comments in LJ helps. It's nice to know that the author cares about the fact that you give input on their story (that might just be me, though). I'll be honest and say I'm not sure if it can be done at archive sites as I don't frequent that many, but I don't think it can be done at the ones I do use.
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From:My Revelation
Then, shock horror!, it occurs to me that I cant remember if I ever reviewed LMH.
See, I had a summer-long baby sitting gig. And so, in anticipation of sitting around all summer watching a perfectly capable 12 year old, I copy pasted in swathes all of LMH onto my lap top and contentedly read it on the job. Well, not On The Job…. That would be rather strange.
But because I was not reading it online I had no access to a reviewing medium and I think I may have forgotten.
So let me take a quick moment here to declare; I LOVED beyond all measure of man, beast, light, sound and verging into the quantum, your wonderful fic. The end had me screaming out loud; “No Way!” and scaring small children in the process.
I eagerly await the much sought after sequel and am desperately looking for the time to read the rewrite.
Re: My Revelation
Date: 2005-01-06 06:23 am (UTC)Re: My Revelation
From:Re: My Revelation
From:no subject
Date: 2005-01-06 06:00 am (UTC)Readers don't know what they're missing, 'cause I answer each and every comment I get!
Still, I'll keep posting at Skyehawke (I mean, I can't imagine trying to poste 100K words on my LJ at one go!) Plus the admin of Skyehawke are delightfully responsive to problems. Also, you know, Australia! Cool accents and kangaroos and shrimps on the barbie and stuff!
no subject
Date: 2005-01-06 09:59 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2005-01-06 06:21 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-01-06 10:01 pm (UTC)