On religion and conservative Christianity

[emmagrant01]

I have no idea why I'm posting this, really. I read wayfairer's post about growing up a conservative Christian, and it was so frickin' familiar that it threw me for a loop. I started to post a long response there, but... I dunno. It felt too personal. I think I'll do it here instead, f-locked.

I grew up in a small town in the south, went to a Southern Baptist Church, and grew up believing many of the things she described. I started hitting walls very early though, and I don't think I ever truly accepted the church's teachings. I remember being 5 years old and hearing the preacher shouting about how dinosaur bones were put in the earth by Satan to tempt people (actually, men -- they were always men), and I remember thinking "No, he's wrong." Seriously! I was infatuated with dinosaurs, had a shelf full of books about them, had stuffed dinosaurs I played with and watched dinosaur movies whenever I could. There was no way, my five-year-old mind reasoned, that this one man who yelled at us every Sunday could be right and all of my books could be wrong.

That started a ten-year strained relationship between me and religion. I started asking questions after that, first of my parents. I was taught in church to read the Bible literally, but I was uncomfortable with that. I was reading a lot of poetry in first grade (I was a weird kid), and I knew that poems were full of hidden meanings and metaphors. My favorite poem was Frost's "The Road Not Taken", and I had spent months interpreting it literally (and freaking out about walking in the woods) before my mother explained to me that it was a metaphor for choosing a path in life. That was a revelation for a six-year-old, as you might imagine. So why should the Bible be any different, I began to wonder?

To my parents' credit, they answered my questions thoughtfully. Despite being raised SBs themselves, neither was inclined toward the literal interpretation of the Bible that others in my family were. My father told me about the play "Inherit the Wind", and how he'd always liked the idea that one of God's days could be a billion years long, and that could explain dinosaurs and evolution. So you see, my parents taught me very early to think for myself and to interpret the written word carefully. I doubt they realized how powerful a lesson that was for me.

My church years were uncomfortable, generally. I never fully accepted the teachings of the SB church, which seemed to me to be overly literal, too black-and-white, and often hateful. I occasionally went to church with friends who were Presbyterians, and was shocked at how pleasant the experience was. I didn't leave angry or feeling guilty. But I still didn't buy it. Religion just didn't make sense to me, no matter how much I thought about it, nor how much I wanted it to make sense.

When I was 14 years old, I met my first atheist, a senior in my high school, a friend of a friend. I was shocked at first -- how could someone not believe in God? I could understand hating religion, or even hating God, but not believing there was a God at all? It was a new idea for me, something I'd never even considered before. It was frightening to consider it, because it meant giving up on many of the things that had been part of my life.

But it was also very appealing. No more pretending at church. No more having to rationalize and qualify religion, even while I disagreed with the words being said. No more pretending to pray, all the while wondering why these idiots thought God would care about the outcome of a band competition. No more having to justify being friends with Jews or gay people (I'm serious, that was an issue). I could just let it all go, and accept the world for what it was. My family had stopped going to church years before, after my parents got divorced, so it wasn't like I was used to going every Sunday and would miss people.

So I accepted it one morning in tenth grade: I was an atheist. It was a strange relief. I felt like a huge weight had been lifted from my shoulders. I had a new outlook on life! In some twisted way, I finally understood what people meant when they talked about being "born again".

Still, it was two years before I could say the words out loud: "I'm an atheist." I still have not told my parents, though I'm pretty sure they know. We simply don't discuss it. I look back now and realize I haven't really been a Christian since grade school. I had started compartmentalizing religion and reality very early, and letting go of all the religion was very easy.

So given all of this, do I think I understand the perspective of conservative Christians, as wayfairer seems to? Well, no. I grew up surrounded by conservative Christians, in an extended family of conservative Christians, and constantly hiding my non-belief from them. My parents may have accepted my questioning, but few other people did. I was told on many occasions to sit down and shut up, and stop asking questions. One church elder even suggested Satan was planting all of these questions in my mind. I was eight at the time. I didn't believe him, by the way.



So as hard as I try, I can't stop regarding conservative Christians as closed-minded and ignorant, simply because the people around me were just like that. They didn't value education or science; they were highly suspicious of outsiders; they believed everything the preacher said; they were quick to judge; and they did not tolerate anyone questioning their beliefs.

I'm not claiming that all conservative Christians are like that, but I have to admit that most of the ones I've ever met have been. Keep in mind that I go visit my family several times a year, and they are still like that. I love them dearly, but they're homophobic, racist, sexist, and ignorant. Or maybe they're like wayfairer says: embroiled in a war against the evils of the world. I suppose that "evil" includes me. At least I can put a reasonable face on it for them.

Comments

[sciencegeek.livejournal.com]

Hm, interesting. I had a friend in high school who was/is a fundalmentalist baptist. It was odd, though, she loved science...but didn't 'believe' in evolution, despite all evidence to the contrary.

I believe that the power of believing can make people to incredible things, whether for good, or evil.

To be honest, I doubt anyone would believe in God if they didn't have to die.

I'm not sure where I stand, exactly, religiously. For now, I believe in a God, though it's not the one organised religion preaches.

[helens78]

First off, *hugs*. I grew up in Indiana, which wasn't anywhere near this bad, but I still wouldn't tell my Hoosier relatives, on pain of death, that I'm an atheist.

The trick to this, I think, is remembering that while you may be able to rightfully call a group close-minded, etc., you still need to judge every person as an individual. Those of us who are individuals who identify as any given group (whether that's liberal, conservative, etc.) may have strong opinions that vary wildly from "the group", and it's painful being tarred with the same brush as everybody else, no matter whether your opinions have a background and a foundation or no. I think the conservatives on people's flists who are freaking out or frustrated or calling for people to be nice to each other are really just trying to get the idea across that hey, look, not all of us are evil, war-mongering, civil-liberties-destroying, bigots.

I stopped telling "dumb guy" jokes after my husband told me how much they hurt his feelings. I never had a low opinion of my husband and have never, ever meant any disrespect to him, personally, by telling jokes about how guys do incredibly stupid things. But he pointed out that no matter how much I might not mean him, personally, he was still a guy. Applying part-to-whole philosophy is a logical fallacy for a reason.

And I must be a slashwriter, 'cause the first time I wrote "fallacy" (and the second!), it came out "phallacy". *heh*

[blucola.livejournal.com]

I grew up in a household that was very markedly split. My mother is a liberal Democrat and my father was a Republican, even though he could also be heard to say, god damn fucking Republicans as often as he cursed the Democrats. Mom never pontificated, not the way Dad did. And I also went to a progressive Presbyterian church which is likely where many of my values were born.

The minister spoke from the love standpoint of the bible. Things like responsibility, charity and tolerance. We were taught in Sunday school to celebrate Hannukah as well as Christmas. Anyone could come to my church, all were welcome. In other words, integration was in effect there even when it was a new concept. Although my part of town was still pretty lily white.

Fast forward several years, after the family had left Mo. and lived in Florida (where we didn't go to church) and then returned to Mo. I got married, made a bad church choice and don't attend church anymore.

My brother, on the other hand, joined a Southern Baptist Church. For years he enthused about this wonderful church. He seemed happy, he's raised two wonderful, responsible girls. Then during this election year the split between his values and mine became marked. We have a cousin who has had a few girlfriends over the years. Her first girlfriend was abusive, certainly not a good candidate to introduce an entire family the a committed lesbian lifestyle as a good thing. Her newest girlfriend, who is always simply introduced as friend, is wonderful and the family loves her.

Now comes the part where my brothers values and mine split. Because he told me (on the day of Dad's funeral, so emotions were running high) that if they were to marry it would ruin our society. Simply grind it into the ground. This is a guy who, when we were growing up, was always liberal. In the same conversation he told me that there is no circumstance in which it is acceptable for a woman to have an abortion. Near to death or anything, it's simply not acceptable. I told his daughter never to turn to him if she was raped and bleeding.

How does this happen? In my brother's case, it's simple, he moved away from the city and more liberal values to a very conservative small town that spawned Rush Limbaugh of all people. I guess it boils down to small town=intolerance. And Dad's intolerance? It's simple, he moved around a whole lot because of his job, he adopted attitudes from the people he knew. Except that both of them, as conservative as they were, support strength in women. So, conservative, but with a certain amount of progress. It's enough to make my head spin. I hate knowing that my brother voted for Bush, my Dad would have voted for him as well. And I voted for Kerry simply because I didn't want to vote for Bush!

[littleroo27.livejournal.com]

My step dad is one of those people who believed what he was taught as a child without ever questioning it. Bad for him that he married my mother, who will question anyone, and got me in the process - the daughter of a lawyer. When she married him 8 years ago he didn't believe that dinasaurs had ever existed. After a couple of years of asking him for evidence to back up his views (and exactly what are those big bones in the museums?) he gave in and conceded that they probably did exist and that he just might have been wrong about that one. He's very big into WWII and educating people about the persecution of the jews, yet I think he's probably pretty homophobic. We've never talked much about it, but he seems so shocked whenever he's informed that some famous person from history liked cock. I informed him last Saturday that Shakespeare wrote half of his sonnets to his male benefactor and he was all "didn't he have two kids and was married?" Well, yes, there is that - so he was probably bisexual. I think I added a new word to his vocabulary :) At least he's not openly ignorant, and after 8 years seems fairly open to change. My grandmother is very religious, but I just try not to talk to her about it. It's easier that way!

[ladyfalcon.livejournal.com]

It's very interesting for me to read this. I think growing up atheist is in a way comparable to growing up gay for a lot of people; I think it probably starts about as early, and can be equally hard and full of 'Why am I different?' feelings. In a way I feel lucky on both counts that my parents were never particularly interested in indoctrinating me into any particular ideology, though I know my mother would definitely prefer me to be some stripe of Christian and my father would prefer me to qualify myself as 'agnostic'. To hear the story of someone for whom 'coming out' atheist would be so much more problematic is fascinating, and I definitely respect your strength of mind in sticking to your guns, even if it is through silent dissent.

[rotschopf.livejournal.com]

Well, what can I say? I'm one of those people my parents used to warn me about *smirks* No, honestly. I went to school at a convent (Mary Ward, if anyone wants to know) and they were really cool about things and stuff. I don't know how many homosexual couples we had or how many Muslim kids went to school with me. But I was taught one thing at my school: it's all about love. No matter how or whom or what you love. Love. Love a lot. I never heard a homophobic, sexist or racist comment, and even I as a Luciferian was just accepted because they understood that I'm not a Satanist. That's my experience with Christianity, and I'm glad.

luv & hugs
The Drow

[oconel]

That story about dinosaur bones... yes, I heard it about ten years ago when I was in Virginia. I studied in a Catholic school till I was 18 and the nuns were always very open about other beliefs, so Virginian Baptist were a shock for me. I hadn't imagine that in the States there was a place where children weren't tought about Darwin, or were couples shouldn't kiss on the street or women drive on their own, where Dungeons & Dragons was considered a satanic game, and the Bible believed word by word!

It was a complete shock!

That and the lack of knowledge about international news, the didn't know anything about the elections that were taking place in Russia at that time.

[ashkitty.livejournal.com]

I love Inherit the Wind, and I've always thought that question, about how long was a day before there was a Sun, was a really good question. I think it was probably a turning point for a lot of people. ;)

I always learned the Bible was more or less metaphorical, and Lutheranism is basically based around the idea that you can think for yourself and have your own relationship with God and not have to depend on someone else to lay things out for you. So I clash with the conservative Christians a lot too, even though we theoretically both follow Christ. (Sometimes I just think they read a different book, or there was some other Christ wandering around that was really Jesus' Evil Twin, or something.)

I have some of the same problems you do with not putting that face on all conservative christians, because like you, most of the ones I've met really are like that. I have an aunt and uncle who really believe that God is micro-managing their lives, paying attention to when they trip over something and fall down, they won't go to restaurants in town that aren't owned by Christians (basically "church-approved" places)...yet on the other hand, my aunt's an alcoholic and her daughter went to drug rehab at 14 for doing crack and just had a baby out of wedlock. The hypocrisy, at times, is astounding.

[ashkitty.livejournal.com]

Oh! I forgot to add, I had at Biology teacher in grade ten who believed that dinosaur bones were put on earth by Satan. She prefaced the evolution section with "I don't believe any of this, but I'm required to teach it to you". Why on earth, if you're a conservative Christian, would you go into Biology?

[thermidor.livejournal.com]

My English teacher in 10th grade didn't believe in dinosaurs either. She thought them a plot, I think, by atheist scientists.

I lost so much respect for her that day because I had thought she was smart and how could someone smart think that?


And Emma, thank you for telling your story.

[kinetikatrue]

I'm a Quaker. Yes, that's right, a Quaker. Like William Penn, except, er, alive and female. For whatever it's worth, I'm even both a birthright Quaker(I was born into the religion - my family's been Quaker for, er, roughly 16 generations) and a convinced one(I've come to the religion on my own and established a relationship with it that has nothing to do with the fact that it's the religion of my childhood), so I'm able to look at it from both perspectives.

Now, those of you who have friends or acquaintances who are Quaker might be wondering why I have anything relevant to say, here, so let me take a detour into Quaker history. The short version goes something like this: Quakerism founded mid-17th century; came to America soon after; experienced growth throughout 18th century(6 yearly meetings in the eastern US); Hicksite(direct revelation)/Orthodox(scriptural primacy) Schism early 19th century; further schism of Orthodox into Gurneyite(pastoral/evangelical) and Wilburite(non-pastoral/silent) sects mid 19th century; Pastoral/Evangelical schism among the Gurneyites early 20th century; reunification of four of the original six yearly meetings mid-20th century; formal foundation of Evangelical branch of Quakerism mid-20th century. And, yes, that really was the short version; the really long and complicated version has a poster and rather a lot of weighty tomes dedicated to it. But I digress. If you can't tell from the short version, the greater body of the religious society of friends can be considered a microcosm of the general trends in worship throughout the last couple of centuries. The difference between it and other groups that have experienced similar splits over doctrine and discipline is that Quakers of all branches still make an effort to stay in contact and work together. Some of the most interesting(i.e. interesting times, interesting) work of this nature takes place within the four reunited yearly meetings.

So, where do I come into this? Well, I grew up in and am still a member of one of those reunified yearly meetings. I am, in fact, a vaguely active member, though moreso at the national level, and as such, I attended interim yearly meeting sessions the weekend before last, where one of the issues on the floor was what to do with our(the yearly meeting's) annual contribution to Friends United Meeting. Now, why was this even an issue, you might ask? Well, even shorter version this time: most of the unified yearly meetings belong to two national organizations - Friends General Conference(originally Hicksite) and Friends United Meeting(originally Gurneyite) - and while Baltimore has always been more of an FGC yearly meeting, it still considers its association with FUM to be valid and valuable. We have our share of disagreements with them, however, and the subject of the current one is what made me think to bring this up: FUM has made it part of their hiring policy that no employee of theirs may be in an unmarried cohabitative/sexual relationship, and because they don't believe that gays and lesbians should be allowed to marry, they therefore won't hire any gay or lesbian person who is part of a committed relationship. This outrages the vast majority of my yearly meeting and, as a result, we've refused to send them our annual dues for the current year in protest. It gets even more interesting(see interesting, above), because there are meetings within the yearly meeting that are not in unity with this sentiment and think that we should continue to fully support FUM. And we're only ~5,000 people who profess to share the same faith. If you look across the broader spectrum, you can find anything from atheists to wiccans to 'average' christians to evangelists - with all the attendant problems some of these combinations bring along. But you know what? I love my religion; I really do. It may frustrate me sometimes, but living it gives me greater insight into the world around me and for that I am grateful.

Now, was any of that useful to anyone but me? Really couldn't tell you at this point, but I'm going to post it anyway.

[snapdragondd.livejournal.com]

((((lots of love))))
Grew up conservative christian too. Mormon/LDS actually, which according to many fundamentalist christians is not "really" christian but oh well. It's strict, rigid, conservative, and just not me anymore. Don't know what I am now, and don't know what to tell my family when I figure it out, but I just wanted to give you ((hugs)) because I know.