GIP

[emmagrant01]

Gipity gip gip.

Oh yeah, baby. I'm proud of this one. In a pervy, I'm-so-going-to-hell kind of way.

It's that picture of Dan flat on his back that...

*facepalms*

Oh god...

Comments

[liesbyomission.livejournal.com]

That is nice... *cackle* The look on Dan's face and his hair...yeah, highly suggestive there...

[lrodell.livejournal.com]

....my, how they both have grown...=)

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

I saw that photo and thought, "Oh, please. They know what they're doing!" I mean, it's really suggestive, and it can't have been an accident. They do that with girls all the time, anyway, right?

I just feel completely pervy when I look at it. The boy's like, half my age! Maybe younger. Ack.

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

Yes, indeed! Just a few more years, and my drooling over them won't be illegal. Heh.

*chews fingers nervously*

[evajames.livejournal.com]

Such a lovely icon. ^_~ No wonder you were speechless about Dan...mmmm...:D

[slashprincess.livejournal.com]

love the icon,

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

And yet I feel guilty about it. Somebody told me last night he was 13 when that pic was taken. *sighs*

[helens78]

I just feel completely pervy when I look at it. The boy's like, half my age! Maybe younger. Ack.

*laugh*

I remember seeing the first HP movie and having Daniel Radcliffe hit all my "I love nerds" buttons, and walking home muttering to myself "I'm the biggest pervert in the world."

Grant and Ari just pointed at me, laughed, and said I'm not allowed to make fun of them for drooling over Natalie Portman in TPM anymore. Turnabout is fair play!

'Least Tom Felton's fair drooling grounds by now. I think 16's close enough for chan. *laugh*

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

*grins* Thanks!

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

I thought they were both cute in the first movie, in that "aww, what a cute little boy" way. They were significantly more grown up in the second, and they were a few moments that raised an eyebrow from me. I've since become such an H/D slasher, and I'm a little afraid about my reaction to the third movie! The trailers alone have been fun...

'Least Tom Felton's fair drooling grounds by now. I think 16's close enough for chan.

And isn't 16 considered "legal" in the UK?

[helens78]

*grin* The nice thing about all the HP slash is you know you're not alone. If we're pervy, we're all in the handbasket together, right?

And 16 was legal where I grew up. I think...

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

If we're pervy, we're all in the handbasket together, right?

Oh, yes, indeed! wyoming_knott and I were chatting about this last night, actually. It's so nice to have a community of people who understand. Heh. Still feels pervy, but nice not to be the only one...

So have you written or thought about writing any HP stuff? I haven't seen much fic from you posted on LJ lately -- I assumed it was all over on JF instead. *hugs*

[helens78]

I've thought about it (OTPs: Remus/Sirius and Severus Snape/Lucius Malfoy -- so far anyway ;) ), but haven't actually gone there. I actually haven't written much of anything lately (*cries*); have been having a very rough month writingwise (though I've been seeing much more of the husband, which is a bonus). I have a feeling the HP love is going to catch up with me eventually. The movies aren't gonna help me resist. :D

Actually, the fandom I keep glancing at and skittering away from fast is Smallville. I've been renting the DVDs and the show is fantastic. Unfortunately, I'm not a fan of the guy who plays Lex Luthor, so all my brain does is spin up AUs where there's a 16-year-old Christian Bale Batman who hangs out with Clark. *beats head on desk*

[jedirita.livejournal.com]

Have I ever told you about the time I taught a class for six 15-year-old boys? At that age, they're all on their way to manhood, though they aren't quite there yet. And for all their joking around and interest in sex, they're still pretty much oblivious to their own sexuality. It's like they've got it, but they don't really know what to do with it yet. They're always pulling up their shirts, the way four-year-olds do. But they don't have pudgy four-year-old bodies anymore...

It makes it rather *ahem* difficult to work around them. I felt like a pervert just being with them.

But I do have to say: where in the hell were Daniel Radcliffe's parents that they let people take such a picture of their son? There's no WAY I'd let anyone take a picture like that of my underage kid.

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

*grins* No, you never told me that story! Actually, back when I taught high school, there were a couple of students I had little crushes on. they weren't the loud, ballsy, popular boys either, but the smart quiet ones that all the girls seemed to ignore. There was one in particular who was really adorable, really geeky, and... damn. He eventually went to the university where I went to grad school, and he'd often come by my office and chat. So cute, and just the same -- insecure, cute, and I wanted to hug him. He looked a lot like Dan-as-Harry, now that I think about it...

They're always pulling up their shirts, the way four-year-olds do. But they don't have pudgy four-year-old bodies anymore...

*coughs* Yep, I know exactly what you're talking about. Heh.

But I do have to say: where in the hell were Daniel Radcliffe's parents that they let people take such a picture of their son?

*nods* I agree completely. The picture is SO suggestive. Here's the full version (http://www.queerasjedi.com/emma/DanRad.jpg). Look at his hair, and the expression on his face! And he was, like 13 at the time. You see pictures of girls like that a lot, at even younger ages.

Can I be an indignant pervert? It's mostly just a shippy thing, anyway. It's all about my little OTP... *sighs*

[jedirita.livejournal.com]

Can I be an indignant pervert?

I think so! *ggg* I mean -- in other words, it's very understandable why 15-year-olds are so sexy, but they *are* still underage, which is why their parents really shouldn't allow their children to be exploited like that.

Remember that Britney Spears Pepsi commercial they used to always run in movie theaters? That whole commercial was about all those guys lusting for her -- including BOB DOLE and his DOG! (My God! At least when Clinton shagged Monica, she was over 21, and there was no bestiality involved!) It was THE most disturbing thing I'd ever seen. And I do believe she was underage at the time. I thought her parents should be locked up in prison for allowing a commercial like that to be made -- exploiting their daughter as an object of lust.

That adults lust for 16 year old Britney Spears or 13 year old Daniel Radcliffe -- that's natural. Feelings are natural: they are what they are, and you can't change them. But we CAN change our actions, and I don't think it's right to exploit grown-ups' lust for underage kids. The Industry has a moral responsibility not to exploit these kids that way.

Ah, but what about Art? What about a movie version of Lolita? Hmmm. But that's fiction. (Plus they're usually played by legal age people. But what about Zeferelli's nekkid Romeo and Juliet? I believe those actors were both underage.)

Your icon names those faces as Harry and Draco -- fiction. But now we're getting into the morality of RPS. It all gets so complicated. Would it be wrong if you labeled them as Tom and Dan? Is it okay to use real (underage) people's faces to illustrate your fictional fantasies? Ummmm. I'm so glad I'm not a lawyer!

So - do you mind that I've used your slightly pervy icon as the springboard for Many Deep Thoughts?

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

No, I don't mind at all! The interesting thing is that I really debated whether or not I should make this icon. I had several versions of it, one of which went through a shorter suggestive sequence than the one you see above, and then had a few frames of me angsting about the fact that I'd made a pervy icon.

I ultimately decided to just expand the suggestive sequence and leave it at that. I figured the fact that I felt guilty about making a pervy icon would take away from the impact of the images, and my point in making the icon wasn't to make people uncomfortable. I've seen a ton of suggestive icons recently that people have made from footage from the latest trailer. One featured that image of Harry smashed against the window of the Knight Bus, with the words, "Harder, Malfoy!" on it. I thought it was pretty funny, and an example of what we are doing when we write slash -- we're taking things in canon and reinterpreting them as we want to. The "Harder, Malfoy" icon is a tongue-in-cheek, extreme example of that, of course, but it's essentially what we do, isn't it?

I have to admit that I now read a lot of fanfic that I would have found objectionable even a year ago, as a result of coming into this fandom. MDH jokingly calls it kiddie-slash, which always bothers me tremendously, for obvious reasons. I have no objections to people writing, posting, or reading whatever they want, of course. BUT: a lot of Snarry stuff really squicks me, for reasons we've discussed before. I have read chan that I enjoyed and thought was well-written, but in general, it pushes all the wrong buttons for me. I don't have the same issues with fics about young same-age characters exploring their sexuality in ways that are realistic -- realistic in my experience, at least. Perhaps this is why I love the post-Hogwarts genre so much -- all of the fun of writing slash in this universe, with none of the squickiness!

Of course, there's a lot of sweet coming-of-age fic in the HP fandom, as well. I mean, 16-year-olds do fool around, and many are sexually active. In that sense, such fanfic is really no different from movies like Fast Times at Ridgemont High, or Porky's, or American Pie. There's something wonderful and nostalgic about reading those sweet little first-time fics. I mean, we've all been there -- the insecurity and uncertainty of your first sexual experiences, coupled with a little fear about unfamiliar physical sensations and a degree of intimacy you've not experienced before.

I'm still feeling weird about the icon, but it's good to have this conversation!

Censorship, moral responsibility and artistic freedom

[jedirita.livejournal.com]

Ah, there are a couple of points of discussion in your post here, so I'll start with this one:

I ultimately decided to just expand the suggestive sequence and leave it at that. I figured the fact that I felt guilty about making a pervy icon would take away from the impact of the images, and my point in making the icon wasn't to make people uncomfortable.

That's very honest of you. It allows people to make their own judgment. I've actually been thinking about the issues raised by your icon quite a bit. This has to do with issues of censorship, moral responsibility, and artistic freedom. (My! Sounds like some kind of college course)

I would not make such an icon, because they are real underage people (as we discussed above.) I think that people who make icons should have a sense of moral responsibility about what they do. That is, they should acknowledge the social context and moral implications of their work. I would argue with other people that I do not think such icons are...appropriate? morally responsible?

But I do not believe in censorship, and I highly value artistic freedom. I wouldn't make such an icon, and I'd argue with someone that they shouldn't, but I would NEVER forbid them to. I cannot think of a situation where I would ever support censorship (though I suppose it's possible there might be such a situation.)

Supporting artistic freedom means that there will be things that disturb us, things that we think are wrong, that push our buttons, that morally outrage us. Yes, it comes with a price. But that price is worth it. The cost of censoring or restricting artistic freedom is far too high.

Which goes back to the moral responsibility part. It is up to artists to acknowledge and act out of their own sense of moral responsibility. There should not be some outside force that polices artists. We artists need to accept that role for ourselves, which is why I HATE it when people say, "It's just a fic/icon/song/poem/picture/whatever, and doesn't mean anything." It DOES mean something. It ALWAYS does.

(And of course, I do not at all mean to imply that in making that icon, you were morally irresponsible! I don't think that at all!)

kiddie-slash

[jedirita.livejournal.com]

The second point of discussion is about kiddie-slash. I'm with you on the adult/kid squick. Also the teacher/student, master/apprentice, etc, etc, squick. But per my discussion above, I would never say it should be censored.

But I really love stories about kids fooling around, experimenting with sex, falling in love, etc. Because as you say, that's what kids do. And it makes me remember all the painful ecstasy of being a horny teenager. I love, love, love those stories! So unlike you, I actually prefer the Hogwarts-era stories to the post-Hogwarts ones.

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