people have rape fantasies and fic fulfills that particular kink
Yes, that's another whole issue, she said after posting two screens of commentary in your poll post. :) I only focused on the other side before.
Actual rape fantasies are different, definitely, from more realistic stories about rape. The way I think of it, there are two different worlds we write this stuff in. One is a close analogy to realspace, where someone who's been forced to have sex has been raped and it's always a bad thing, although there are degrees of badness. The other is what I think of as the erotic fantasy universe, where all the things we pretend are true when we're playing kinky games actually are true, and kinks can be acted out safely.
In the realspace universe, if you want to write about a rape scene (emphasis on the scene) then you have the character who initiates it discuss it with their partner, they set boundaries, make sure the agressive partner knows the other person's safeword, and generally make sure that there are rules in place to keep everyone safe. In the erotic fantasy universe, you write as though the rape is a real rape and the victim is truly being forced, at least in the beginning, but you can have them end up liking it and getting off on it if you want to. You can write the top as someone who just "knows" what the bottom wants and needs and is always right, and the bottom as someone who wants and needs to be forced, even if they don't know it when the story starts. Or you can write the bottom as someone who doesn't want it and the sex as violent and coercive from beginning to end, and there's still an understanding that this is the fantasy universe and no "real" characters were harmed in the writing of this story. [rueful smile]
I think a lot of problems occur when the writer doesn't make clear which universe they're writing in, or perhaps doesn't even understand the difference. A story which feels like it's in the "real" world, but which ends up with rape victim begging their assailant for more, or even lying there shivering in a pool of blood, is going to turn off more people than a story where it's clear from the beginning that this is meant to be a fantasy.
What happens in the fantasy world is what we pretend is real when we're playing games in the real world. If a story is set in the real world and the non-con occurs within the context of an agreed-upon scene, with safewords and boundaries, I don't think of that as non-con. And a non-con story which is set in the fantasy world is definitely a lesser variety of non-con to me, because it is all a fantasy, no more meant to be real than the bullet-time fight scenes in the Matrix movies.
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Date: 2006-09-21 11:41 pm (UTC)Yes, that's another whole issue, she said after posting two screens of commentary in your poll post. :) I only focused on the other side before.
Actual rape fantasies are different, definitely, from more realistic stories about rape. The way I think of it, there are two different worlds we write this stuff in. One is a close analogy to realspace, where someone who's been forced to have sex has been raped and it's always a bad thing, although there are degrees of badness. The other is what I think of as the erotic fantasy universe, where all the things we pretend are true when we're playing kinky games actually are true, and kinks can be acted out safely.
In the realspace universe, if you want to write about a rape scene (emphasis on the scene) then you have the character who initiates it discuss it with their partner, they set boundaries, make sure the agressive partner knows the other person's safeword, and generally make sure that there are rules in place to keep everyone safe. In the erotic fantasy universe, you write as though the rape is a real rape and the victim is truly being forced, at least in the beginning, but you can have them end up liking it and getting off on it if you want to. You can write the top as someone who just "knows" what the bottom wants and needs and is always right, and the bottom as someone who wants and needs to be forced, even if they don't know it when the story starts. Or you can write the bottom as someone who doesn't want it and the sex as violent and coercive from beginning to end, and there's still an understanding that this is the fantasy universe and no "real" characters were harmed in the writing of this story. [rueful smile]
I think a lot of problems occur when the writer doesn't make clear which universe they're writing in, or perhaps doesn't even understand the difference. A story which feels like it's in the "real" world, but which ends up with rape victim begging their assailant for more, or even lying there shivering in a pool of blood, is going to turn off more people than a story where it's clear from the beginning that this is meant to be a fantasy.
What happens in the fantasy world is what we pretend is real when we're playing games in the real world. If a story is set in the real world and the non-con occurs within the context of an agreed-upon scene, with safewords and boundaries, I don't think of that as non-con. And a non-con story which is set in the fantasy world is definitely a lesser variety of non-con to me, because it is all a fantasy, no more meant to be real than the bullet-time fight scenes in the Matrix movies.
Angie