(no subject)

[emmagrant01]

Is there any interest in a writing challenge that would pair experienced writers with newbies to co-write a short fic?

I've been tossing this idea around for a few days, and I have no idea if people would find it intriguing. It seems like it could be a good way for newer writers to get real feedback on their style and to get some exposure by working with a more recognized fanfic writer. This is also motivated by the issues I have with the various "tell me if I suck as a writer or not" memes that seem to be going around. I think there are better ways to improve as a writer than asking anonymouses for their opinions...

Thoughts?

ETA: Wow, lots of strong opinions on this! Let me flesh out what I was thinking of to clarify:

1. The idea was not for this to be a mentoring/betaing situation, but really a co-writing set-up, where two people work together to write one fic. The idea of putting a newer and a more experienced writer together was one way of going about that, but I could easily drop that part. I was mainly interested in the collaborative aspect.

2. I had imagined matching people up based on a two things: pairings of interest and whether or not they would write NC-17. I was also considering asking people for one strength and one aspect to improve in their writing and then matching up complementary folks as much as possible.

Comments

[katina-r.livejournal.com]

As a newbie to writing fic, I'd certainly appreciate it. :D

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

Emma:

This is a thorny issue. I am in a critique group and there is a sort of hump that all writers (me included!) have to crawl over and to distance themselves from criticism. I think this is a very difficult step. People THINK they want criticism, but in reality it's always hard to swallow, even if you're a seasoned author. A newbie doesn't often have the writing skills (and yes, I believe that at a certain point you develop skills that are separate from imagination and voice) to make changes and feels that the criticism is coming out from left field.

I'm not trashing the idea, I'm just saying that it's a hard concept to put into action without hurting feelings. And, also, some writers are NOT good critiquers, either.

[paper-tzipporah.livejournal.com]

I think the pairings would have to be very carefully thought out. It might work better to have someone who has trouble with a specific aspect of their writing paired with someone who's good at that but has trouble with something else. Cancel out the weaknesses, as it were.

[splix.livejournal.com]

Speculatively, I think it's a good idea. In practice, I would guess that the more established fic writer's opinions and style would prevail over the newbie's - not in a malicious sense, but if a newbie's intimidated by a bigger-name writer, I think he or she might naturally defer to the BNW.

[abbycadabra.livejournal.com]

This is also motivated by the issues I have with the various "tell me if I suck as a writer or not" memes that seem to be going around.

Whoa, where are you finding those memes? Cause I want in!

As for the real topic at hand, yeah, I think it's safe to say that I'm really interested in it. It seems like it would be fun, and especially helpful to newbies. I think there would be a lot of interest in it, especially from the newbie side of the coin-- you might, in fact, be flooded with more newbies than experienced writers. Would there then be a sort of selection process or something, or first come first serve?

If it's first come first served ...

[elsie.livejournal.com]

<<
>>

DIBS ON YOU.

[allysonsedai.livejournal.com]

I think it sounds great and terrifying at the same time. I'd love to participate... on the newbie side, obviously. :)

[physixxx.livejournal.com]

not if the newbie is headstrong.


:tee hee:

i think the person with the most connection to the story will prevail.

ie. if i got together with a more experienced writer, but the writer just didn't really care for the plot as much as I did, wouldn't my ideas and style prevail b-c i would care about the story alittle more, maybe?

[physixxx.livejournal.com]

yeah, this is a cool idea, especially in facilitating better writings from newbies.

[skarch86.livejournal.com]

That's very interesting! I'd definitely participate.

[physixxx.livejournal.com]

well, notto be a harsh critique of your comment (tee hee), but the actions of a few (or is it many) sore-loser 'writers' shouldn't justify ixnaying a perfectly good exercise tool for newbies.

if they can't handle the criticisms, then go to myspace and start a group or summat.

and, if an experienced author can't be at least respectful in their criticisms, then maybe they should not criticize and simply iron out their own plots and get to writing their cool stories and leave the educating to those who deserve to be educators.

right?

but your point is not lost on me... even my beta kept pulling punches with me b-c she was used to people getting huffy and puffy with her about the criticisms. i can't even contemplate why anyone would ask for opinions/critiques and then want to bite the hand that feeds them.


oh wells.

takes all kinds, i reckon.


NOTE TO EXPERIENCED AUTHORS: feel free to rip my stories two or three assholes... i have thick skin.

not calloused, tho...

:snigger:

[carvedwood.livejournal.com]

How would the "co-writing" process work?

[obi-ki.livejournal.com]

Very interesting concept. I think the most difficult would be pairing writers whose basic style is the same. Otherwise I think the stylistic issues which are really just matters of taste would overwhelm the rest.

I would be interested in participating in such a project but I fear that most of the contact you have these days come through HP, Emma, and my experience there is limited to editing fem slash as you know :)

[eleal.livejournal.com]

I honestly have very little time even though I would love to write more. I think co-writing a fic would be a lot of fun and it'd be great to be held accountable to someone.

How would you pick the writing pairs? Would it be challenge style or would each pairing pick the ship, plot, etc.?

Thanks!

[pir8fancier.livejournal.com]

I agree with you in principle. I'm of the "rip me into shreads" school of crititque too. But critiquing is as much of an art form as writing. There is a way to say it (and I'm NOT saying that I'm a goddess at this or anything, I tend to be too blunt) so that you don't turn someone off. I'm truly amazed at how much my writing has improved over the years. And as it improved it thickened my skin. I can take a tough critique because I've honed enough writing skills that it doesn't seem so daunting when someone says this doesn't work. I know which questions to ask.

Also, and I can't say this enough. It's ONE person's opinion. That's why I always want no fewer than five betas. And I assure you, every single one will have a completely different spin on a fic. It's fascinating. I trust them all. One of the hardest lessons I've learned about writing is that not everyone will like your fic. Seems elementary but it's really hard to accept in reality. Because I put so much of myself into my writing it's like a "Y" cut on the page. And I think that's true for a lot of writers, newbie or not. And to hear that what you slaved over is trite and passive and just as boring as all fuck (but said nicely) still hurts. So I think there is an art to saying that so that you encourage someone to keep on writing and point them in the direction where they need to improve.

I was lucky in that I had several writing teachers who were wonderful at this. "This part is just lovely, but here you need the characterization gets fuzzy. Would this character do this? It seems to be antithetical to what you have them doing here, which is so nicely done..."You get the picture. The idea is to keep people writing. Keep them improving.

What I think might be fun would be to put together a community whereby newbies could post their fic and everyone could chime in I've always found several opinions to be invaluable.

[splix.livejournal.com]

Maybe. That's why I said speculatively, it's a good idea. As someone else mentioned, it's probably a good idea for a newbie to find a 'mentor' whose style and [possibly] notions on canon/pairings/etc hew close to one's own to reduce friction.

[fatale.livejournal.com]

I rather feel like a new writer, but I can't be sure. Is there like, a cut-off? "You have been here this long so you are an experienced writer"

[kali-sama.livejournal.com]

I think it's a good idea in theory, but might need some tweaking. It might be a better idea to have a sort of mentoring thing go on, though I really hate that word. It would basically be giving a newbie and experianced writer as a beta, and then have the experianced writer endorse the finished fic. It would allow the newbie's style to stand on it's own, and give them some good tips along the way. I guess it would sort of be like rec'ing, because I know I personally tend to think better of newbie fics if someone recs it and I know they've got good taste/talent.

[fatale.livejournal.com]

Newbie or experienced?

[oddnari.livejournal.com]

As a newbie to fic-writing (well, semi-newbie anyway), I'm all for it ^_^

I don't need hand-holding as much as a co-writer/co-plotter, actually.

Yes!

[dm-p.livejournal.com]

I would absolutely love to be involved in a project like this. As a new writer, most of my reviews and criticisms come from ffnet and I know that, as an aspiring writer, I would like to have more concrete help.

Sign me up!

[skarch86.livejournal.com]

Newbie. :)

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

I added an ETA above to clarify. I'm curious to know if you still think it's problematic.

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

That's not exactly what I was thinking of. I added an ETA above to clarify. If you have a chance, could you tell me if you still think it's problematic?

[fatale.livejournal.com]

Just curious. :D

I'd like to do something like this, but I'm not really sure if I'd be a new writer or an experienced writer. I think it just depends on who you put me next to, you know?