*grrr*

[emmagrant01]

Okay, I'm not religious, and most people who know me are aware of that fact, even most of my extended family. So it pisses me off on many levels to get something like this from one of them:


****************************

Think carefully about what you will be reading.


Mary had a little lamb,

His fleece was white as snow.

And everywhere that Mary went,

The Lamb was sure to go.

He followed her to school each day,

T'wasn't even in the rule.

It made the children laugh and play,

To have a Lamb at school.

And then the rules all changed one day,

Illegal it became;

To bring the Lamb of God to school,

Or even speak His Name.! ;

Every day got worse and worse,

And days turned into years.

Instead of hearing children laugh,

We heard gun shots and tears.

What must we do to stop the crime,

That's in our schools today?

Let's let the Lamb come back to school,

And teach our kids to pray!

=====================================
It is said that 86% of Americans believe in God. Therefore I have a very hard time understanding why there is such a mess about having "In God We Trust" on our money and having God in the Pledge of Allegiance. Why don't we just tell the 14% to shut up and sit down????

If you agree, pass this on, if not delete...


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Well... shit, I have now been effectively silenced, haven't I? What can I say to this? Just because the vast majority of Americans believe something that I don't, I should just sit down and shut up when it's being crammed down my throat? I don't mock religious people, and I don't wear my athiesm on my sleeve. It's nobody's business but mine what I believe.

So what should I do here? I'm obviously expected to just roll my eyes and delete the thing. I don't like being told that my beliefs are wrong and I should just conform or keep my mouth shut.

Hmmm. Well, I guess I've already done more than that, haven't I?

Comments

[jedirita.livejournal.com]

I know, these things irritate the hell out of me -- and all the more so because I *am* a Christian who believes in God and prayer -- and who wants government to stay the hell out of my religion, which is why I firmly oppose organized prayer in school.

But a ditty like this is problematic on so many levels. It makes the erroneous assumption that if kids were led in an organized school prayer, then school shootings wouldn't happen. It becomes a cheap, pietistic way to ignore the real problems of violence in our society (and easy access to hand guns due to lack of gun control laws) by pointing at the "straw man" of public prayer in schools.

Quite aside from its blatant disregard of the importance of freedom of religion in American society and its lack of respect for other religious viewpoints, it's also a pathetic, narrow-minded, provincial view of Christianity. Jesus actually argued *against* public prayer, because it runs the risk of becoming a cheap form of piety. (Matthew 6:1 -- "Beware of practicing your piety before others in order to be seen by them; for then you have no reward from your Father in heaven." Also v.5-6)

Religion by coercion is evil. Period. Likewise, the American government is morally and authoritatively bankrupt if we tell dissenting voices to "shut up and sit down." This ditty is un-American and un-Christian (and anti-public schools). And you can quote me on that.

[helens78]

Grr along with you! That whole thing about "tell the 14% to sit down and shut up" really makes me want to smack someone. There are probably piles of statistics that could be brought up to counter that. I mean, what percentage of Christians are Protestants vs. Catholics? Should we tell the Catholics to sit down and shut up? What about Jews? Them too? Why should any percentage be able to tell any other percentage to sit down and shut up? I don't care if you've got a freaking football field of people who believe in God and one atheist; if that atheist is not able to leave the football field under her own power, if she is being forced to stay there, then no, it's not OK to hold a religious service.

This is why private schools having God all over doesn't bug me, but public schools do. You cannot opt out of the public school system. You can't have your property taxes not go to support public schools. Some people, of course, think that's a good thing; this whole debate about God, though, is one of many, many reasons I don't. When you're compelled by force to support any given agenda, including public education, then you can be compelled by force to support beliefs counter to your own. That's not a power I think government should have.

...ooooookay, that turned into a libertarian rant, but, well, such is life...

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

I know I live in a little Ivory Tower world, but most (non-relative) people I know who are religious in one way or another would agree completely with what you've written. What really frightens me about getting things like this in the mail is that it reminds me that there are many, many people out there who *do* agree with this sentiment. It scares the shit out of me, to be honest.

So I sent a reply-all back to my uncle, basically saying that "Agree or shut up" is a frighteningly un-American sentiment. I wish I'd read your reply here first, because then I couldn've talked about it being illogical and un-Christian as well...

Thanks, Rita!

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

You make really good points about all the different varieties of theists out there who likely would be subjected to a very narrow view of God in the case that such religious freedom wasn't the norm. I'm mostly irritated that people I'm related to would agree with and actually forward on such an idiotic statement. And to me, of all people -- how can I not take that a bit personally?

...ooooookay, that turned into a libertarian rant, but, well, such is life...

*the democrat smooches the libertarian*

[thalia]

What Rita said. As a Christian, more or less, I'm finding this offensive for a whole bunch of reasons.

If it were me, I'd probably say, "As one of the 14%, I very much resent being told to shut up and sit down"--but then, I'm always in trouble with my family for saying things like that. You'll just have to decide whether it's worse making a stink over. But, jeez. I can't believe someone wrote that tripe.

[jedirita.livejournal.com]

I've gotten things like that from dear friends, too. Sometimes I screw up the courage to write back and say, "You know, I don't totally agree with this." What surprises me is that often they agree with me! They may have liked some little sentiment in it, or just passed it on, but ultimately didn't agree with the larger issues raised in the ditty. It's weird to me that someone would pass something like that on, but on the other hand it indicates that some folks are open to more thoughtful reflections on those implications.

Ack. Did that make ANY sense at all?

Maybe we ought to make some sentimental emails about freedom of religion, free speech, separation of church and state, etc, etc, and spam all our friends and relatives with them -- to counterbalance the pietistic pap?

[jedirita.livejournal.com]

Heheh. I'd probably say, "As one of the 86%, I'm mortally offended that people would cheapen the name of MY God by bashing others with it. The God I believe in isn't a school-yard bully."

[workingslacker.livejournal.com]

Argh. For people like that, I just have to say "What part of 'Congress shall make no law' don't you understand?"

*off to renew my membership in the ACLU*

Religious bullies

[emila-wan.livejournal.com]

The real fact of the matter is that most people are ruled by emotion and not logic, which makes them do and say the stupidest things. Once the stupidity is pointed out to them, some of them have the grace to back down, but most don't. As it has been said by one greater than I, the two most plentiful substances in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.

I can even understand the sentiment behind this bit of doggerel. Prayer in school was outlawed, and our schools began to go down hill. A lot of people see a correlation. Heck, I even agree with them that it's probably one of the root causes of our society's decaying morals.

However, the real way to counter something like this is to say, "Yes, but a few years from now if atheists are in the majority, or Muslims, or Hindus, or whoever, do you want them to be able to tell YOU to sit down and shut up?"

It's all well and good to cry out for majority rule in religious matters if one is in the majority. But in my neighborhood, Christians make up less than half the student population. Should the majority (Buddhists) be able to make my kid learn their religious ceremonies or chant "in Buddha we trust"? Over my dead body! That, dear friends, is why I defend to the death THEIR kids' rights NOT to have to listen to Christian prayers at school.

My kid is perfectly capable of saying his own prayers any time he wishes. He has no need to force his prayers upon the consciousness of others.

Ask your uncle or whoever it is ... is it okay for the Taliban to tell everyone else in their country to "sit down and shut up"? Is it okay for Saddam Hussein to do so? Was it okay for white people to tell African slaves to sit down and shut up? Was it okay for Hitler to order the same for the Jews?

And finally, did Jesus ever advocate such a tactic? Or did he advocate turning the other cheek, praying for your enemies, and doing good to those who curse you? Does anyone seriously think that telling non-Christians to "sit down and shut up" will in any way motivate them to want to follow Christ?

GRR indeed.