For the Newbies and Underappreciated Writers

[emmagrant01]

Most (if not all) of us are here in fandom for fun, but a significant number of us really work at it. We would genuinely like to improve our writing and produce fiction that other people will read and enjoy. Many of us spend more time than we reasonably can spare on this hobby, and we would all like some acknowledgement for that, of course. But when you're a newbie in a fandom, it can seem like that acknowledgment is a long way away.

It's been a while since I've been a newbie, I must admit -- but twice upon a time I was a newbie in two different fandoms, and I know what it's like to struggle with the whole "no one is reading my fic or even giving it a chance" thing. Every now and then I see posts about it from newbies, and though I sometimes want to offer advice or encouragement, I never know quite what to say.

So, in an attempt to provide encouragement and advice for new and "underappreciated" writers, I thought it might be good to create a post where people could talk about their experiences. I have no idea how one would define "newbie", so I won't attempt to do so. So if you want to consider yourself a newbie or an underappreciated writer, go right ahead! Likewise, how do you know that you're not a newbie any more? I have no idea! So if you have advice to give, please do so. No need to identify which category you think you belong to. :-)

If you're not a Fandom Newbie (or underappreciated writer):
• How long did it take you to get your fic "noticed"?
• How and where did you post your fic?
• Who supported or helped you along the way?
• What advice do you have for new/underappreciated writers?

If you are a Fandom Newbie (or underappreciated writer):
• What questions or frustrations do you have?
• Who has been helpful and supportive for you so far?

Feel free to comment anonymously, but I would like the tone here to remain positive. I intend to screen/delete any comments that are wanky or bitchy about specific people in any fandom.

Please feel free to pimp this post!

ETA: And talk to each other, if you like. Some newbies are asking good questions, and it would be great to see them answered! :-)

Y'all are awesome! There's some great advice in these comments about getting noticed as a writer and keeping it fun.

Comments

[lellagrrrl.livejournal.com]

I don't feel like a newbie reading, but I feel like one writing. If that makes any sense.

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

That's fine! Like I said above, it doesn't really matter to me how you classify yourself. And this post is definitely focused on writing. :-)

[jedirita.livejournal.com]

Ooh, interesting topic! But I don't have time to reply now, other than asking if you would post this to ctf, too?

[emmagrant01.livejournal.com]

Ah, good idea!

[marksykins.livejournal.com]

Ooh, interesting!

If you're not a Fandom Newbie:
• How long did it take you to get your fic "noticed"?

Well, I started writing in October 2003, but I was already getting some attention by November 2003. I think people noticed me cumulatively, instead of all at once. I don't think I've ever been able to claim that I was underappreciated, though I didn't feel underappreciated with five readers. Heh. I'm still in shock.

• How and where did you post your fic?

My first fics were all drabbles for hp100 and hpsquick100. Then, I started with longer fics on timed communities (15minuteficlets, 30minutefics, contrelamontre), before starting a chaptered H/D fic and posting to Fiction Alley (Schnoogle).

• Who supported or helped you along the way?

Oh, lots of people. florahart and I started writing around the same time, and we both became friends with leogryffin who was the 30 minute fics mod at the time. nqdonne was one of the first people to rec "Oscillate Wildly," which was lucky because she was a Niffler for Fiction Alley at the time. The first time I published a PWP, scribbulus_ink and makesmewannadie both recced it, and then switchknife invited me to pornish_pixies. Like I said, it was a snowball; the people in HP fandom have always been so lovely and helpful.

• What advice do you have for new/underappreciated writers?

Promote your stuff, but not so much that it's annoying to the people who keep an eye on a large segment of fandom (yeah, I know it's a hard balance to strike, but there definitely is a balance to maintain). Don't get frustrated if you're not noticed instantly because this fandom is huge and getting bigger all the time. Get a beta that will be honest with you. Write because it's fun, not because you're trying to level some degree of recognition; this hobby isn't a money-making one no matter how many people know who you are, and it really is just a hobby. And yes, I forget that sometimes, too. ;)

[mizbean.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I still feel like a newbie writer.

If you're not a Fandom Newbie:
• How long did it take you to get your fic "noticed"?

I started small, writing drabbles, which is a great way to get your feet wet and meet people. Drabble communities are very supportive, so I didn't have a problem getting noticed. I still count amongst my best friends in LJ, people who I met in my early days posting drabbles on hd100 and malfoy100.

Once I decided I wanted to tackled longer fics, I looked around for a few challenges that interested me and went from there. I always cross-post to the appropriate communities -- harrydraco has over 1000 watchers which makes it really easy to get your fic read by someone.

• How and where did you post your fic?

I cross-post to a few places depending on the pairing. harrydraco for my h/d fics, the_pimp_cane and hpslash for others. Sometimes, for yucks, I'll try posting at smaller communities just to see if I get any readers from there.

• Who supported or helped you along the way?

People on my flist listen to me wibble and I've used a few of them for beta reading. My husband has been great, if a bit amused. I bounce ideas off him, especially in regards to how men think about relationships.

• What advice do you have for new/underappreciated writers?

Look for challenges that interest you and sign up for them. Start small with drabbles or ficlets. Ficlets are not a big time commitment and sometimes I get more reviews with those. I'm also more willing to click on a link of someone I don't know if I see the wordcount is small.

[luci0logy.livejournal.com]

I just wanted to say thanks for mentioning harrydraco. I joined last night, posted my first 3 ficlets and woke up to an inbox of comments and some new friends.

[malicemadden.livejournal.com]

Great topic!
I haven't written anything HP related (especially H/D) for a LONG time. WAY over a year in fact. When i first started, i pimped my shite out like crazy to people online who i knew in real life. They sent the link to their friends and so on.
I got maybe 6 or 7 recs a fic.
And i was LOVING it.
I have so many plot bunnies floating around but i don't have the motivation to write. Probably because all the best stories appear on my flist every few days. lol.

[phaballa.livejournal.com]

Ah, I feel like I'm still in the very in-between stages in fandom. I'm not a "newbie"--I defintiely have a few people who read everything I write and have on occasional been rec'd by people whose fans then flood me with comments. Which, awesome. But on my own, I don't generate too much interest in my fic. So let's see...

How long did it take you to get your fic "noticed"?
A long time. I've been in fandom for two years, and it wasn't until a few months ago that my fic really started getting notice, and only then because someone much more important than I rec'd it. I still don't get noted on the newsletters or anything, and my novellas have hardly been blips on the radar screen.

How and where did you post your fic?
At first I posted at FFnet, Fiction Alley, and the Sugar Quill. Later I started posting at more ship-specific sites--unredeemed.net, dracoandginny.com, etc.

Who supported or helped you along the way?
A bunch of people. danxsunday has been lovely about reading and reviewing and reccing my fic, satinvalkyrie as well; petulantgod has probably been my best supporter, betaing and reccing and encouraging me. And switchknife, who has sent many readers my way.

What advice do you have for new/underappreciated writers?
Post on communities. Review other people's fic and be really nice to them. A lot of times people read fic because it's written by their friends, as silly as that sounds. Be patient and try to get a really good beta.

As a side note, thinking about this makes me want to have an invite-only underappreciated author's community. Like... recruit scouts who will troll hpslash and some of the larger communities for really good fic by unknowns, who would then be invited to join. I think having a community for people who all have the same frustrations with fandom would be great, and it would also actually help some of these really fantastic writers get noticed.

[fatale.livejournal.com]

Not saying this isn't a good idea, this comm, but how do you determine popularity/readership? The size of their flist? A certain number of comments left to their fic? Just curious.

[axiom_of_stripe]

Well, I was a newbie when fandom was on mailing lists and centralized open archives, so I don't actually think that the details translate. On the other hand, some general advice:

What advice do you have for new/underappreciated writers?

First, save all of the feedback you ever get. It will make you feel better in long dry spells!

Second, don't judge a story by the quantity of feedback it gets. Judge by the quality of the feedback, if you have to judge.

Third, hang out and write silly fluff with your friends. Not only does every bit of writing practice count, it creates an image of you as a writer in people's minds (including your own).

Fourth, don't doubt your work in public, but only to friends and beta-readers. Nothing puts people off of a story like an introduction that begins: "I know it's not very good, but...."

Fifth, everyone tells you to get a beta-reader. That's fine. My advice is to learn to edit your own work. Think of beta-readers as racing stripes, not training wheels. They're there to make the good better, so you need to already be good.

Sixth, when you start lecturing newbies on how to write, you'll realize that you've arrived after all. :)

[blackelf23.livejournal.com]

If you're not a Fandom Newbie (or underappreciated writer):
• How long did it take you to get your fic "noticed"?

It didn't take me to long, because the place where I posted it, has so many members that are willing to read anything that sounds decent and leave a review, that I wasn't really worried about it.
• How and where did you post your fic?

I posted mine on a fanfiction archive-- harrypotterfanfiction.com Its very simple && they have message boards and things of you need help.

• Who supported or helped you along the way?

Just all of my reviewers, I guess. Obviously all of the good reviews gave me encouragement && helped me keep writing, knowing that they liked my story.

• What advice do you have for new/underappreciated writers?

Don't give it up. Just because one person doesn't like your story, doesn't mean other people do. Just check over your work && make sure its exactly the way you want it before you share it with everyone. ^_^

Fandom Newbie

[sciencegeek.livejournal.com]

Well, in the writing sense, anyway.

I think the frustrations I have are the same as most writers, really, in that a lot of people may read something, but don't comment. I know I can be really bad for leaving comments, so it feels a little hypocritical to be complaining about it.

The cross-posting thing in LJ is a difficult thing to master. I know that for me reading, if I see something like 5 or 6 times in a row on my flist, I have a hard time giving it a chance, but at the same time, I know what it's like to want to get your work out there to a wide audience.

Also, where to post? So far I only keep things on LJ, but, on occassion, I've toyed with the idea of putting them somewhere else as well - again with reaching a larger audience.

The people that helped me post my first fic/drabble were jamie2109 and thefunkypig, because I know that they'd both be supportive, and with the latter, I knew that if something really sucks, she'd tell me. That being said, after the first drabble I posted, I haven't asked anyone to look over anything, really. I don't feel close enough to anyone in fandom to ask them to read something over for me, and I don't want to bother anyone. And for friends outside of fandom, I don't want them feeling uncomfortable reading something I wrote, or obligated to look over something for me.

Ah...and this last part might sound a bit shallow, but there are a couple of people that commented on things that I wrote, and it made me super happy, because I totally fangirl them. Even though it was only a line, it was a bit of a mood lifter and ego boost.

Re: Fandom Newbie

[painless-j.livejournal.com]

To avoid overdoing with x-posting, you might post it in a couple of *relevant* communities, in an archive or two and on a couple of mailing lists. This way it will be read be somewhat different groups. Well, I guess :)

[ladycat777.livejournal.com]

Huh. That's a really interesting question. I'm going to come at it from a slightly different perspective. In the fandom I've been in for four years this Tuesday, I'm fairly well known. It's a large fandom, yeah, but in my particular pairing I really am fairly well known. My fics don't all get overwhelmingly glowing responses, but there's always at least someone who gives me feedback, that kind of thing.

Coming in HP was, in contrast, odd. When I first started writing in my other fandom, I came in at the right time: I hit it fairly early on, had a story that was well received and very often recced (still is, despite being unfinished) and developed a large reader-base very quickly. I'm needy and insecure enough that I really wanted the same kind of thing when I hit the HP fandom -- which just isn't going to happen. I don't know if I'm unknown or underappreciated, but there are those who like the stories I've written so far, enough that I'm certainly not going to stop.

I post mainly in comms like bottomdraco (it's a kink *shrug*), harrydraco and harry_draco. I have archives on ffnet, adultfan, and skyehawke, and yeah, I do get responses on all of those, so I'm not sure I can really claim underappreciated -- I am appreciated, just by a smaller segment than my ego really wants to be *lopsided grin*.

As for those who've supported me -- one of the things I love about LJ is the wide range of interests in my flist. While SGA and SG1 are now the fandom of greatest popularity, I have a lot of HP friends as well, and a few of them -- winterlive and neverneverfic and ferretgm have seriously held my hand. Switching fandoms is hard, yo! I've been in one fandom for four years -- I know those characters inside and out and I still love and write them frequently. Coming to a fandom that had language quirks, since I'm American, and a huge mass of people involved, as well as characters I'm still learning ... it's been interesting. I'm enjoying it, most days, but ... it's been very interesting :)

/ends long-winded speech.

[tipgardner.livejournal.com]

Hm...promote, promote, promote. And write comment fic on high traffic journals. Seriously, though, I think that commenting intelligently on others' journals is a big way to get noticed, as is posting to high traffic comms. Try not to post the same thing to more than one to three relevant comms, though. Participate in challenges.

Another thing is that long seems to be good. The more involved the piece makes the reader, the more the reader stays with it. So if one can sustain that for a novel length fic, it works all the more so.

I think I first got noticed about a month or two after I'd started writing. I had done original stuff and what was going to be a long gen Riddle fic at first and then wrote a smutty H/D for the aw why not of it and got pimped.

jetami is the first person that I remember reading and commenting on my mainstream stuff. I'd one or two mates from the two chapters I'd put on Schnoogle, but I'm not sure that they pimped me the way that Jet has.

carbonised pimped a number of my early pieces as did switchknife (no Pornish invite, though... ;D). And then I wrote some sort of total pr0n that got a lot of comments, my circle had grown a bit more solidified and got bigger and the readership continued on from there.

[fatale.livejournal.com]

You know, I didn't know whether to classify myself as a newbie or not. I still feel silly and bumbling all the time, but I guess I have some kind of readership. I think we started about the same time in fandom, did we not?

Tip, I'm gettin' all nostalgic.

[kirili.livejournal.com]

I'm not underappreciated so much as I just can't write decently. But I'm either too narcissistic or obsessed to give it up. *buttjiggle*

For the second question: ravenpan

[ravenpan.livejournal.com]

You CAN TOO write decently :P silly you :)

[beren-writes.livejournal.com]

I remember being a fandom newbie and it was daunting. I'm not sure what the cutoff with being a newbie is really - I think it may be a personal thing when you beging to think you have a handle on how the fandom ticks. When it came to HP I was a newbie to the fandom, but not to fandom in general - it's always the first fandom that's the most difficult.

• How long did it take you to get your fic "noticed"?
Probably a couple of weeks after I began posting my first long fic, but I had had two short fics up for two or three months before that.

• How and where did you post your fic?
To put it bluntly, everywhere I think might be interested :). I post it to fanfiction.net, adultfanfiction.net, fictionalley, Ink Stained Fingers, mailing lists and every relevant LJ comm I can find where the membership is not completely overlapping. If I'm posting a long fic I make a txt file and write the places I'm going to post to into it first so that I can just go down the list each week on update day.

• Who supported or helped you along the way?
At first the readers on fictionalley were the best, and then my flist began to grown and they're all lovely people.

• What advice do you have for new/underappreciated writers?
I think posting in multichapter parts, regularly, helped to intrigue and keep the audience. Giving people something they can get their teeth into, but not everything at the same time seems to work well as long as they know when the next bit is coming.

If you write shorter fic then try to post regularly so that people see your name and come to recognise it.

This is probably going to sound silly, but find yourself a distinctive fic icon that you can use to post to comms with, at least at first. Some people are far better at recognising a picture than a name so having something uniquely you can help. People might like one fic, but they might not remember who wrote it, but if they see a distinctive icon it might jog their memory next time you post.

Get involved in fandom things like ficathons and challenges. They are often a good writing challenge and they can pair you with people that might not otherwise have seen your work.

Reply to as much of your feedback as you possibly can - even if it is just a thank you. If people have taken the time to comment then it makes them happy to see you have seen it. There are times when it becomes impossible because of RL or other factors, but if you try people appeciate it.

Give feedback on other fic as well. If you give interesting feedback people may notice you just for that and toddle over to your journal to see what you're up to. Start conversations with people in email and on LJ, but do not do so just to ask them to read your fic; that tends to piss people off :). I think participation can be the key.

I could witter on for ages, but I'll stop there :).

[rachfrank.livejournal.com]

For me I think the fact that you posted your fic so many places is what made me notice you. A lot of times that can be annoying, but I think you did it right. I first saw GTS on FA. I read the summary and I marked as a maybe. Then it kept coming up on different lj comms and on adultfanfiction and even ff.n. Everytime I went searching for a new fic to read GTS was right there. It kept it fresh n my mind and finally curiosity just made me read it.

[sesptwd.livejournal.com]

Well, you know how I feel on this topic. I will refrain from whining about my fics not being read, or being read and not commented on. I will also bite my tongue on the topic of newsletters not rec'ing me (even when I ask very nicely).

I will say that it's very, very difficult to get noticed around lj unless you are extraordinary or you know someone who is.

The two of my fics which you were so very kind to rec, have received so much feedback (so much on my level, that is). The difference is quite obvious.

I think I'm a fairly decent writer and that my fics are enjoyable. I really wish there was a way to attract more readers, other than posting to several communities. People have told me that that's the way to get noticed, but I worry that people are rolling their eyes when they see my same fic linked 5 or 6 times on their flist.

Maybe the BNF's could form an adopt an author program. They could rec all new fics that their adopted author posts??? *giggle* As if you BNF's have nothing better to do.

[splix.livejournal.com]

Interesting questions.

How long did it take you to get your fic "noticed"?
I first posted a short fic to the Master-Apprentice list in January of 2000 after mostly lurking for four or five months. I got maybe eight or nine pieces of feedback; I thought my head would explode with delight. :) Thereafter, I got pretty regular feedback each time I posted.

How and where did you post your fic?
Mostly Master-Apprentice; back in the day I used to post non-TPM one-offs to lists like SlashKink and Rareslash, and my Velvet Goldmine fiction to AllVGfic. I have a website that hasn't been updated in a couple of years. I rely on my private mailing list for readers, though I post my VG stuff to pointed_epigram now.

Who supported or helped you along the way?
kimberlite has been my long-term supporter/booster, along with Alex-Law. Merry Amelie likes my stuff, though not the angsty things, nor does she read VG, I think, and there are a few people who've been really kind to me throughout my fannish existence.

I think, in terms of fandom hierarchy, I probably have more of a cult appeal than anything else, which is fine.

What advice do you have for new/underappreciated writers?
Make friends in the fandom. Comment on people's stories. Get a reliable, honest beta reader. Try not to get discouraged at lack of feedback; there really is no telling what makes a story popular sometimes.

Above all, try to have a good time; it's a cliche, but fandom really is supposed to be fun.

[anansay.livejournal.com]

If you're not a Fandom Newbie (or underappreciated writer):
• How long did it take you to get your fic "noticed"?

I'm new to HP (Harry/Draco) fandom, but I was in another for about three years. Although I wasn't the "most" popular, I still felt like I had a good following, with comments such as, "Well, if Anansay wrote it, it HAS to be good!" While those comments lifted my spirits to soaring, I grounded myself with the knowledge that not everyone (would) like my style of writing.

• How and where did you post your fic?

At first, on ff.net. Then I got my own site (which I can't update anymore, long story. *pout*) Now, mostly on LJ.

• Who supported or helped you along the way?

Fellow writers and discriminatting readers. They told me when things didn't work, or when something caught their attention, either good or bad.

• What advice do you have for new/underappreciated writers?

(I'm SO one to say this! *sarcastic*)Don't worry about reviews. Even the New York Post critics are biased based on their own likes.
Write for yourself; if you like it--the story/your writing--then others will eventually flock to it, because you will not have quit.


If you are a Fandom Newbie (or underappreciated writer):
• What questions or frustrations do you have?

Frustration: there are SO many writers in this fandom (compared to the other one I was in) that I sometimes feel like I'm just another mediocre writer in a slew of wordy people. I know there are writers who just BLOW you away with their writing, be it descriptive or narrative or charaterising or imaginative, etc.

For some questions: I might ask why there are comms such as: harrydraco AND harry_draco, and others with relatively the same name, same posts, almost same memories. I've chosen one: harrydraco, because it was the first one formed. And I've friended others that leaned in different directions.

• Who has been helpful and supportive for you so far?

No one, really. Being a newbie to this fandom, I'm just getting to know the people.

[sorion.livejournal.com]

If you're not a Fandom Newbie (or underappreciated writer):

My "appreciated" stuff is in German (and in other fandoms... HP I do write in English)... Just so you don't go looking for my English writings. (Some are nice, others clearly lacking.)

• How long did it take you to get your fic "noticed"?

It took until I wrote something better than before and put more effort into it, actually ^-^'''
But I really got noticed, when I wrote something "different" (according to sources ^-^') Since then I can practically write what I want in these fandoms and I get read... (But I never managed to surpass that one story... *sighs*)

• How and where did you post your fic?

On my site and two quite large German archives. (animexx.de and yaoi.de)

• Who supported or helped you along the way?

Nobody but me... (and sometimes my sister)

• What advice do you have for new/underappreciated writers?

Not much, I'm afraid... ^-^'' Except that to get noticed, you have to try something new.
And short stories are nice... But you're not going to get noticed when you never try something a little bit bigger.

[dramaphile.livejournal.com]

• How long did it take you to get your fic "noticed"? About four months or so after I joined the LJ side of fandom. I'd gotten recc'd once, early-on, but nobody really knew me until this past May.

• How and where did you post your fic? I started out on Fanfiction.net, which is nice for the ego, but really doesn't get you anywhere in fandom as far as respect (which I think most people who end up on LJ figure out eventually). As far as comms, I tried to post to more speciality comms, because while posting to places like harrydraco or remusxsirius might get you a bunch of comments, no one remembers you because 5 billion people post there a day, and a lot of people I know filter it out if they're members because there's far too much badfic there. My fics really didn't start getting noticed until I did pervy_werewolf's Lusty Month of May. Ficathons are an awesome way to get noticed, because a lot of people will watch the comms knowing that some well-known writers will be posting there, and so the lesser-known ones sneak in there as well. :)

• Who supported or helped you along the way? The first person who ever recc'd me was xylodemon, and exposure from her really helped me get noticed. When people are very popular (I'm going to avoid the B word), their recs are more respected, and so I really appreciate when they rec lesser-known or newbie writers because it's an easy way to get exposure and repect within the fandom community here. Sort of like a ticket to the front of the bus, ya know? as far as encouragement, __goldie was huge in that respect. I wondered, at one time, why she was so popular in fandom when she really doesn't produce much fic at all, but I think it's just because she's an awesome cheerleader and resource and great as a beta. ♥!

• What advice do you have for new/underappreciated writers? Write rare-pairs. Nobody noticed me still I started writing things other than the most popular pairings. You don't have to stop writing popular pairings if that's what you love, but people are more likely to take notice of a James/Severus fic than a Harry/Draco one because there's just so much badfic in popular pairings that people tend to rely on recs to know what is good to read.

Ficathons are your best friend. Especially ones that require you to write many fics, or have anonymous posting. As I said before, pervy_werewolf's Lusty Month of May got me noticed because of the sheer amount of exposure watchers of that comm got to my fic, even though I only made it halfway through the month. And anonymous ficathons (like merry_smutmas or reversathon) are great because nobody skims past the authors they don't recognize because they're all anonymous. :)

Not a newbie

[painless-j.livejournal.com]

- Well, my first fic was written pretty aggressively, and I wrote it after I had been in fanom for some time (but was nowhere near heard of or well-known), so I posted it to a couple of big communities and relevant mailing lists, and it was noticed at once. Also, I happened to write a H/D as my first fic, so it was easier :) It even made to your hot porn list (I suspect Underlucius...) :)

- ivyblossom, Aja (bookshop), underlucius and ladyvader were my fairy godmothers, those who noticed and recced it.

- my betas, isiscolo and geoviki, my friend Dita P. who is a friend transformed from a reader.

- if you want readership and appreciation, write a lot, find a very strict beta-reader (better a writer you like) and listen to their advice. Good grammar and spelling are your best friends.
If you want to be popular, write either porn (if you are of age!) or conventional fiction. If you don't (like me), be aware that your readership will be small and don't whine :)
Write long fic but think it over, think about every detail first! And finish it!
Participate. In fests, in communities. Nobody will know about you if you sit in the corner.
Leave lots of feedback, and make it intelligent feedback (I mean not "squeee!" or "wow" or "more plz"). Firstly, if you analyze what you like in fic, it will help you be aware of what you write. Secondly, people are more likely to remember you if you say something worth remembering.

[amberleewriter.livejournal.com]

I don't know if I'm under-appreciated. If you go strictly on amount of feedback and comments I get in SW I would say I likely am. However, I'm the odd duck that doesn't write for feedback.

I believe I'm "under-appreciated" for the following reasons:

1) I don't post to lists much:
In my other fandom (where I was NOT under-appreciated and where I might be considered a BNF and was from the start) I posted to ff.net, participated in fic challenges, and own or mod two of the major lists. I have one of the highest google hit sites for my character in that fandom. In SW, I post only to a niche list specific to my major character or to LJ. The means my fic doesn't get much exposure and, thus, I don't have many readers unless they read other things of mine or get sent to my LJ from a rec by another reader.

2) I don't participate much:
In my other fandom where I run or mod two lists, I did author interviews, go to know other BNFs, and sent feedback or crit to plenty of authors. I no longer do this. I read widely in many fandoms and I do so as a lurker. I am quite happy to sit on the sidelines unless responding to something posted by someone I know. I don't feedback fic at all anymore unless someone is having me do a beta and I largely no longer offer my services anymore for beta.

3) I don't ask people to review my work:
In my headers it says something like, "If you want to send feedback I'm not averse but I don't live or die by the stuff." I think this ambivalent attitude about feedback instead of a, "feed the author!" approach means people don't take the time to review. I'm ok with that.

4) I write an "obscure" pairing: I write yaoi pairings that are considered mainstream or canon. I do gen stuff that's popular in other fandoms. My SW character, while in the movies, is really kind of "fringe" an doesn't yet have a "cult following" like, say, Wedge. Because of this people don't go hunting for fic about my character much and, thus, don't find the special lists where I post things or my LJ.

The above items combine and likely make people think I am stuck-up or unapproachable. The fact is that I've just had a lot of bad experiences with giving feedback, doing beta work, and with fandom in general over the years. I've even been stalked. As a result, I tend to hang back with giving feedback or posting to places with lots of exposure because I, frankly, don't really want to be that popular. If I get that popular I suppose it's ok but I want to do it on my own little somewhat anti-social terms. I think that people like you and Rita, who have met me or interacted with me know that I'm far from anti-social -- I'm just very cautious. I also had the experience that when I was a "popular" writer that the quality of my work suffered from rushing to post it or from wanting to please my readers instead of writing for the story. As a result, I shy away from the proverbial fandom limelight. I'm wading further out into the SW fandom water all the time. I got tired of looking for information about Bail and made the LJ community that I now mod so I'm slowly being sucked into the black hole. However, I'm Ok with being "under-appreciated" as long as the few people that do read me and give me feedback are lovely people like you. ^_^ I'm perfectly satisfied.

[dramaphile.livejournal.com]

4) I write an "obscure" pairing:

It's funny how fandoms can be so different, because I've found that the so-called BNF's in HP fandom are really into writing more obscure pairings, and so therefore, readers tend to be more open to them. Granted, there are some very popular people who write mainly the popular pairings (like our dear Emma here), but in places like pornish_pixies (where a whole lot of the writers could be considered 'BNF's -gosh, I hate that word) you're as likely to stumble across a Percy/Lucius or a Draco/Snape as you are to get Harry/Draco (easily the most popular pairing in fandom). I think the prevalence of really terrible badfic in popular pairings has also made people sort of shy away from them (or, like a lot of us, read only stuff that's recc'd to us), so it's writing rarepairs that really gets you noticed more than popular pairings. Or it could be just my little corner of fandom that works this way. Fandom is so huge that maybe my perspective of it is largely skewed by what i read and who I associate with, you know? I just started reading het fic, and I'm suddenly thinking, "My god, there's like a whole nother world out there!"

Oh, this is going to be long. ;)

[ashkitty.livejournal.com]

Hee. I've done con panels on this. ;)

Lessee...I started out in a pretty small fandom (Fushigi Yuugi) in...1999 or so. There weren't many people on the ML I was on, and there was a lot of discussion. (windtear was there, and aishuu, I don't remember who else is still around.) So I got a lot of stuff out of the way before moving into a bigger pond, contests and flames and feedback and all that.

Then I started watching Gundam Wing, and wanted to write for it, so I went hunting for MLs and found a nice friendly one, and posted a fic I wrote on the walk home from class, and that was pretty much it, honestly. The problem with this approach is that 1. nobody uses MLs anymore, really, so your fic is not automatically delivered to 500+ people, and 2. there are SO MANY people and fics in HP fandom that even if you're absolutely spectacular, somebody has to find you. Also, fandom's memory is short; if you write one great fic and everybody loves it, and then it's a year before you write another one, they may forget or they may get excited, it's hard to tell. It's all about marketing, really--know where to post your story so people who are interested will acually see it. Pimp yourself out, but not so much you're obnoxious. Write non-stupid summaries, or, if you're like me and can't write summaries to save your life, just steal a line out of the fic itself that has a bit of a 'hook'. ;) PUT PAIRING/GENRE WARNINGS IN THE HEADER. A lot of people, after having been burnt a few times, will not read things that are not clearly labelled. (You may think this is not fair, and going to spoil your story. Believe me, nothing spoils a story like thinking it's going to be Harry/Draco fluff and finding out it's turned into Voldemort/Snape/Harry noncon mpreg somewhere in the middle.)

Be friendly. I can't stress this enough. When faced with a choice between reading something by someone we like, and reading something by someone we don't know, or someone who is obnoxious, guess which we'll pick? You are not Stephen King, and your readers are just that, readers, not an army of fangirling minions. Most of them write at least as well as you do, and are artists in their own right--treat them as such. Pretentious people are a total turn-off.

Finally, recognise there is no way EVERYBODY will love everything you write. This is a pretty genre/pairing-oriented thing, fandom, not to mention style, and you're never going to be on top of the whole pile. Write what makes you happy, and be happy with the people who read it. ;)

Re: Oh, this is going to be long. ;)

[bibliokat.livejournal.com]

As a reader (I can't write fiction to save my life), I really agree with what you said about summaries and warnings especially. Those are the first things you see, and I can't resist a really good one-liner summary. And being friendly- since this is lj you can't hear a teasing or sarcastic tone, so watch what you say, esp. with people who don't know you.

And honestly yeah, sometimes someone is a good writer, but I don't like the pairing or the style, though really good writers can get me to read (though not necessarily *love*) just about anything.

P.S. What kind of Gundam Wing fic did you write? That was one of my first fandoms, I'm rather behind in it now.

[penknife.livejournal.com]

I don't think I count as a fandom newbie anymore, although I really only got active a couple of years ago, so:

• How long did it take you to get your fic "noticed"?

Oh, let's see, looking back ... first three months I was on LJ, nothing got more than one or two comments. "Freefall" was the first story I think more than a handful of people actually read, and it got ... let's see, a grand total of three comments. Whee, BNF-dom, here I come! ... Not quite.

Then, five months in, I wrote "Ephemeris," and started posting drabbles in x_men100, and actually started to get an audience.

• How and where did you post your fic?

On LJ, xmmff for the XMM stuff, my own journal for the HP fic, contrelamontre, and drabble communities. A few pairing-specific or character-specific comms like remusxsirius, xavierfans, cyclops_fans, and oldfriends. Challenge communities. I also have my own website and post to Skyehawke.

• Who supported or helped you along the way?

Oh, lots of people. yahtzee63 was the first person to give me feedback and to talk to me on LJ, for which I will eternally be grateful. andrastewhite encouraged my Xavier love, and minisinoo did the same for my Cyclops love. tartanshell and nestra and marag and marinarusalka have all been marvelous betas, plus several other people who I apologize for forgetting.

• What advice do you have for new/underappreciated writers?

Write for challenges. It's a chance to put your stories out in front of people who may not read random journals or everything posted to high-traffic comms but who will browse through a challenge archive. Writing for drabble communities can be great, too, if it's something you enjoy -- people are often more willing to give a 100-word piece by a new writer a try than they are to read an entire story by someone they've never heard of.

Post to communities, but don't spam -- pick the one or two you think fit best, and read the posting guidelines -- you're trying to make a first impression, and you don't want it to be person who did not read the posting guidelines.

Also, friend people and talk to them and comment on their stories and participate in discussion. Get out there and interact. It's not that that will make people love your fic -- you still have to be writing stuff that's good -- but it will mean that people friend you, and therefore have a chance to see your stories.

IE ate my first reply. Gah!

[masterofmercury.livejournal.com]

How do you define 'noticed' anyway? It's borderline for me, very hard to decide. Is it about the influx of reviews, or the amount of 'loyal fans', or other thing altogether?

I think I'm a newbie, but not an unappreciated writer. :)

I'm not new to writing per se, I've been writing original stories since I'm only a high-schooler, which is a long time ago.

I think I'm lucky that all of my stories so far have been welcomed so much. I still remember my first story that got post on the internet. It was a 'Kaboom' and my first fanfiction got really positive feedbacks. It encourages me to write more, and more. Comments, suggestions, or random flamings is somewhat essential to my muse though. Still, even with no review at all, I still don't think I'm underappreciated. I might be discouraged, but I'm not going to complain.

I cross-post a lot, but only to the communities of the main pairings. I guess I annoyed many people. *lol*

*stage whisper* To anyone who's annoyed: Sorry about that!

Honestly, anyone who reply to my story in any manner is supporting me, though I might say my lovely friends, esp. 3_dots help me a lot.

I guess I write stories to make friends, not only for fun or for fame. Anyone who feel they're underappreciated might want to try to think like me, and you'll feel better. Trust me. ;)

[novembersnow.livejournal.com]

How long did it take you to get your fic "noticed"?

Well, I posted my first ever fanfic to ff.net (yes, I know) in September 2002, which was underwhelming. A friend pimped it on the veelainc YahooGroup, and that got me a few more reviews, but that was it. About a month later, I responded on list to a fic challenge ivyblossom had posted, and that got more attention (besides being a better fic). A fair number of people responded on list, and Ivy pimped it in her LJ. I got an LJ about a month after that, and so mostly posted fics to LJ after that point, although I posted a few more to the veelainc list and submitted a few fics to FA as well.

I didn't do as much in the way of promotion as I probably could have, but the fandom was smaller back then, and lists were still a powerful way to get your name out there. Once I was on LJ, I started friending other fandom folks, and kept posting fics regularly. My first fic that got a lot (relatively speaking) of recognition was the H/D mistletoe fic I wrote in December 2002. But I didn't feel like I was attracting broader notice until I started officially posting chapters of a long WIP in June 2003. Shortly thereafter, I started archiving my fics at Skyehawke, which was just taking off at the time, so I think a lot of people have found me through there as well.

How and where did you post your fic?

First, ff.net, aka NewbieLand, which was...gah, just don't do it. The veelainc list was my foot in the door, but lists started to fade away (in HP, at least) once fandom people migrated to LJ. FA is another Newbie's Paradise, but I stopped archiving fics there a while ago. Today I post almost exclusively on my LJ and Skyehawke. I don't do LJ communities very often, although I've posted a few times to hp100 and once to pornish_pixies, of which I've been a member since its inception.

Who supported or helped you along the way?

maerda was my first enabler fan, and she encouraged me to write, pimped me out on the veelainc list, and gave me my LJ code (ah, the old days). ivyblossom was my first fandom benefactress, of a sort--the first "big name" in fandom to rec something I'd written, and a tremendous source of encouragement and inspiration. bonibaru hounded me relentlessly to keep working on 3T after I first posted a snippet back in November 2002. And I owe a massive debt to everyone in fandom who ever reviewed or otherwise encouraged me to keep plugging away.

What advice do you have for new/underappreciated writers?

Number 1, keep writing.

Number 2, promote yourself--but be smart about it. It's a lot harder to get noticed today than it was three years ago. I suspect LJ communities serve a similar purpose today to what lists did a few years ago--they're a way to get your name out in front of people who might not otherwise see your work. Some of my favorite HP writers today first got my attention posting to popular communities, where they were noticed and recced more widely. But don't be rude or overly aggressive, and don't assume that just because you're posting to widely-read communities that everyone is going to read you. I know I skip over a lot of posted fics depending on my mood, how busy I am, or how interesting I find the summary.

Number 3, read a lot, review a lot, and join in discussions. It will (a) give you a sense of what and who is out there and (b) start to build name recognition as people see you in their journals and others'.

Number 4, form a strong partnership with a good beta (or several). It not only will improve your writing, it will help you establish a network of friendship and support.

Number 5, keep writing! It bears repeating. ;)

If you're not a Fandom Newbie (or underappreciated writer):

[darksylvia.livejournal.com]

• How long did it take you to get your fic "noticed"?

I have two fandoms. In Labyrinth, my fic is still not really 'noticed', because most of the writers and readers there are only looking for Mary-Sues and bad romance writing. I think I treasure my reviews and feedback from that fandom even more, just because the people who find me are realy smart and have been wading through cancer!fics in despair to get to my stories.

The other one is Queer As Folk (US) and in that one I was noticed right away by bits of it and ignored by other bits of it. I'm not sure about all the politics, but I got to the party late, so I don't know what went on before. There was lots of wank.

• How and where did you post your fic?

Labyrinth: fanfiction.net. And eventually a very cool BNF with a website asked to put it up.
QaF: At a community for the fic: bjfic.

• Who supported or helped you along the way?

Labyrinth: nobody. And I gave a lot of heavily constructive reviews which were ignored in favor of the bad romance and Sarah crying every chapter. For fifty chapters.
QaF: At first, no one. There were sometimes lots of nice reviews and sometimes very few reviews. I don't write very fast, so it always seemed like the people producing lots and lots of non-quality fics got more popular and well-known, just because their name was out there. Now that I'm at a certain level of involvement and I'm not strictly a newbie anymore, I keep an eye out for newbies with promise and genuine storytelling ability and I try and help them.

• What advice do you have for new/underappreciated writers?

A lot of it is about getting your stories to the right audience. I guess that's how it is in professional publishing, too, except then you have editors and agents to do that part for you. In the fandom, you have to do the promotion yourself. And it doesn't have to be overt or annoying--just put your stories out there where lots of people will see them and try not to make long and cracked-out author's notes at the beginning which will turn people off. Also? Begging for reviews is a BIG turn-off. Don't do it, okay?